Aikido B.S.

[neb1979]

Garland,

Ueshiba watered down the art. Jigoro Kano turned it into a sport...whatever it was, it's gone...and now it's been so commercialized there's no hope of ever getting what it once was back...on top of that, it doesn't address today's problems. Get over it.

Garland that is a pretty narrow minded satement.

Have you studied Aikido yourself?

Cheers
Ben

[neb1979]

Garland,

I understand now I saw your profile. You train Muay Thai and are into FMA and all that is JKD. I have trained Muay Thai for some time now myself and trained JKD from the linage of Paul Vunak. But I still totally beleive that my skills in Aikido would stand the test when it came to the crunch in real life.

On the other hand if I stepped into a ring to fight I wouldn't use Aikido at all, maybe the foot work but definatly not the techniques.

Cheers
Ben

[Garland]

Garland,



Garland that is a pretty narrow minded satement.

Have you studied Aikido yourself?

Cheers
Ben

I used to spar around with a 5th dan akidoka...and pin him and smack him around...and this is WITHOUT me hitting him.

All I'm saying is...the Aikido I've seen has been garbage (at least when considered in the light of having any type of unscripted physical altercation). Ueshiba-sensei is dead, and his art is no longer what it was...and even then, it's watered down from the parent art of both modern Aikido and Judo. Judo players are much more realistic and practical in their approach and outlook on fighting...and it's a sport art.

[neb1979]

I used to spar around with a 5th dan akidoka...and pin him and smack him around...and this is WITHOUT me hitting him.

I agree with you I have seen 5th and 6th dan Aikidoka that haven't a clue (in my opinion). But then again every art has people of high rank that shouldn't be there.

All I'm saying is...the Aikido I've seen has been garbage (at least when considered in the light of having any type of unscripted physical altercation). Ueshiba-sensei is dead, and his art is no longer what it was...and even then, it's watered down from the parent art of both modern Aikido and Judo. Judo players are much more realistic and practical in their approach and outlook on fighting...and it's a sport art

Yes Ueshiba is dead and yes his art isn't what it used to be but that is exactly what Aikido is an evolving art (just like JKD). The parent art of Aikido has been debated many times but the art with the most influence on Aikido was Daito-ryu, now that art is deadly and its techniques have been moulded and modified from the battlefields of Japan for many centuries. These are the techniques that Ueshiba chose to mould into Aikido. In saying that if people who trained Aikido actually used the techniques to "fight" it wouldn't be a pretty sight but Aikidoka don't train to fight they train to better themselves through training in Budo.

Garland I am sorry that your onlt experience of Aikido hasn't been good. If you are ever in Australia and in the West let me know as you are more than welcome to come and train with us and it might change your mind a little.

Cheers
Ben

[47MartialMan]

I used to spar around with a 5th dan akidoka...and pin him and smack him around...and this is WITHOUT me hitting him.

All I'm saying is...the Aikido I've seen has been garbage (at least when considered in the light of having any type of unscripted physical altercation). Ueshiba-sensei is dead, and his art is no longer what it was...and even then, it's watered down from the parent art of both modern Aikido and Judo. Judo players are much more realistic and practical in their approach and outlook on fighting...and it's a sport art.

Same here. i had the unpleasure of mising it up with several Aikidoists (not all at once-maybe that would have been fair for them).

All of the tales of how Ueshiba-sensei did this and that, were often presented demos with his own students hich also had attacked linear.

So far, I havent met one that can handle my eclectic manner. I am not trying to belittle the art, but perhaps one day one may rise and show me. In so far as its Ki stuff, like the unbendable arm-it is tactcus if leverage and angle. I had bended the local instructor's arm several times as it has proved nothing to me.

[sojobow]

Ok...how so?
All the Aikido I've seen has been complete shit.

Promise you won't get mad and start calling me names? ok then. First, you mention a few martial arts styles (mostly grappling styles if I remember). Then you imply that Aikido won't stand up to those systems/styles. Then you top all that off with "All the Aikido I've seen has been complete shit".

Couple of things wrong with this. First, I can't fault you as you did qualify your statement with the "I've seen" phrase. So, its only true as far as "You've seen". I don't think much of the Aikido we see today is actually what the founder actually would teach. It is partly his own fault as he lived a very dangerous life for the first 40 of so years. He would fight others to the death and what he actually taught, in secret, was how to remove a sucker's head and break bones. After all those years, he knew that he couldn't continue to have the public (buddhist etc) believe that his school only taught his students how to kill. So, publically, Aikido was a Gentle Art (with a Sword and a 6 foot long stick?). To his students, the edge of that blade would cut a single sheet of newspaper. There are students here that just smile when they hear or read about how 'docile' their art is.

Second, and don't take this as my being Obtuse (which I am) but, think of Aikido versus your grappling arts. Think of who wins in the UFC ring if a match was between ANY blackbelt grappler and a person of Aikido with a similar Rank - with a Katana in his hands. It would probably go something like this: Lets get it on!!! Grappler comes out, throws a left jab, left arm cut off; grappler attempts high roundhouse kick, grappler loses leg. Grappler falls and bleeds to death. Lord help the poor grappler is he attempts a shoot. Grappler loses head.

Those grappling arts are very good - until they meet a knife-fighter.

To summarize, you meet up with a pissed off Aikidoist holding a Katana, just look for the nearest exit and vanish (unless you have your buddies smith and wesson with you). Otherwise, you're gonna get cut.

(Of all the great martial artist in history and also those who have founded systems, the founder of aikido is one of the few that actually had real life fighting warfare experience. Not sure, but did the founder of Judo every had a real life and death fight? )

[jubaji]

To summarize, you meet up with a pissed off Aikidoist holding a Katana, just look for the nearest exit and vanish (unless you have your buddies smith and wesson with you). Otherwise, you're gonna get cut.

Wow, that was stupid.

[Tom Yum]

Second, and don't take this as my being Obtuse (which I am) but, think of Aikido versus your grappling arts. Think of who wins in the UFC ring if a match was between ANY blackbelt grappler and a person of Aikido with a similar Rank - with a Katana in his hands. It would probably go something like this: Lets get it on!!! Grappler comes out, throws a left jab, left arm cut off; grappler attempts high roundhouse kick, grappler loses leg. Grappler falls and bleeds to death. Lord help the poor grappler is he attempts a shoot. Grappler loses head.

Those grappling arts are very good - until they meet a knife-fighter.

Aikido has its strengths. It is excellent for de-escacalations. That is the moment someone tries to push you, grab you, headlock, pin you to the wall, try to get ahold of you you can make them tap and if they don't they're off their feet or about to get something snapped.

But on a stand alone basis (MMA style) - any full contact art would wipe the floor with aikido because MMA type fights dont' escalate; they go from 0 to 100 mph in no time because they're fights.

To summarize, you meet up with a pissed off Aikidoist holding a Katana, just look for the nearest exit and vanish (unless you have your buddies smith and wesson with you). Otherwise, you're gonna get cut.

A pissed off person with a weapon is deadly no matter what style they study.

(Of all the great martial artist in history and also those who have founded systems, the founder of aikido is one of the few that actually had real life fighting warfare experience. Not sure, but did the founder of Judo every had a real life and death fight? )

Ah, but does this mean that each an every aikidoka fights like Uyeshiba sensei? Does the aikido system have such a high level of quality control so as to guarantee each practitioner can use their art under fatigue, stress and pressure?

I've read that kyokushin karate black belt candidtates undergo the 100 man kumite....that makes a black belt worth something.

At many TMA schools black belts are purchased rather than earned.

[Garland]

Garland I am sorry that your onlt experience of Aikido hasn't been good. If you are ever in Australia and in the West let me know as you are more than welcome to come and train with us and it might change your mind a little.
Ben

If that's an invitation for a place to stay for awhile...I wish I could take you up on it...I need a change of scenery, but $ is a HUGE problem for a struggling student like myself...in a year, I'll try to remember to drop you a line. Seriously, Australia is on my top 5 places I want to visit.

[Garland]

Second, and don't take this as my being Obtuse (which I am) but, think of Aikido versus your grappling arts. Think of who wins in the UFC ring if a match was between ANY blackbelt grappler and a person of Aikido with a similar Rank - with a Katana in his hands. It would probably go something like this: Lets get it on!!! Grappler comes out, throws a left jab, left arm cut off; grappler attempts high roundhouse kick, grappler loses leg. Grappler falls and bleeds to death. Lord help the poor grappler is he attempts a shoot. Grappler loses head.

Those grappling arts are very good - until they meet a knife-fighter.

No really? Dude...I've seen people disembowled in altercations...if you qualify that the aikidoist has a sword...what about the FMA guy? What about the Olympic fencer...what about Ray Floro in the FMA forum...or Rafael? I'd shit my pants if I had a gun and was 50 feet away.

There is no comparison there.

[neb1979]

Garland,

That was a genuine offer, if you are ever over this way let me know.

Cheers
Ben

[sojobow]

No really? Dude...I've seen people disembowled in altercations...if you qualify that the aikidoist has a sword...what about the FMA guy? What about the Olympic fencer...what about Ray Floro in the FMA forum...or Rafael? I'd shit my pants if I had a gun and was 50 feet away.
There is no comparison there.

Point is, someone here has a great admiration for grappling styles versus some aikidoist. what i'm trying to impress upon them is that aikidoist also include the sword and the staff. The swordist will cut the grappler more than once. Also, since you bring in the FMA, the FMA's is rip the BJJ, wrestler etc quite easily before the grappler is able to choke him out. The grappler probably will not even realize that he's been cut many times.

Its just not a good idea to equate unarmed stylist against armed stylist. Mushashi even says that once the gun is drawn, all bets are off. Think also about the man with gun standing 25 feet away. You will not have a chance to impose a takedown on him. Do not equate Sports stylist with those evolving out of warfare. If he knows the way of the sword, just leave.

[47MartialMan]

As if anyone would actually have a sword at hand and ready outside if the dojo

[Kenny Chance]

i took a mixed class of judo/aikido for a short time before switching to bjj (didnt have time for both) self defense wise i think its something you have to perfect before using in an encounter, and that would take a verrrrrry very long time. some of the concepts (esp about breaking balance to make locks effective) are very helpful in any martial art, and once i understood that concept it has made things a lot easier. aso some of the wristlocks are kinda cool, a few times when rolling in bjj ive been in bottom guard, and used aikdo wristlocks to set up escapes/free my arms and once i got a tap. so yeah it can be helpfula nd there are some great concepts but if you are deicding on which grappling art to take, theres things that will teach you a lot more useful things

[Troll Virus]

I was thinking about taking Aikido and was told by several people that it is b.s. Ive been grappling since I could walk so I thiught it was a good time to try something new. Is Aikido a practical martial art for MMA? Could I incorporate it bjj and wrestling.

Is Aikido a practical training platform for MMA?
No

Does it have something to offer?
Yes.

As others have said, check out 'Tomiki' Aikido in particular.