Aikido B.S.

[Nips]

Point is, someone here has a great admiration for grappling styles versus some aikidoist. what i'm trying to impress upon them is that aikidoist also include the sword and the staff. The swordist will cut the grappler more than once. Also, since you bring in the FMA, the FMA's is rip the BJJ, wrestler etc quite easily before the grappler is able to choke him out. The grappler probably will not even realize that he's been cut many times.

Its just not a good idea to equate unarmed stylist against armed stylist. Mushashi even says that once the gun is drawn, all bets are off. Think also about the man with gun standing 25 feet away. You will not have a chance to impose a takedown on him. Do not equate Sports stylist with those evolving out of warfare. If he knows the way of the sword, just leave.

They were obviously making a comparison between two styles in unarmed combat. As soon as you bring weapons into it, it just becomes impossible to compare styles because it's about how good your weapon is rather than how good your style is. Sorry son, but if you came running at an armed SAS with your little folded steel katana, you're gunna be shot down. Now, should I then come to the conclusion that the australian army is the best martial arts system? The most practical to all given situations?
No.

You have the assess and evaluate styles on an equal plain, making comparisons with practical and consistent weapons. Now, the one weapon you're always going to have on you, and that is fundamentally the same for almost all human beings, is the human body. So yeah, with these constrients in mind, what makes Aikido a decent art comparable to BJJ. Muay Thai etc.

Oh, and Tom Yum, the 100 man kumite isn't complusory to grade, any of the upper belt gradings requires multiple rounds of kumite with different opponents, but the 50 man and 100 man kumite's are more of a huge honourary Kyokushin thing quite apart from belts. Only 16 people have ever completed a 100 man Kumite and 20 have completed a 50 man Kumite. Masutatsu Oyama (our founder) is the only person to do a 300 man kumite (over 3 days) though. That's tough

[jubaji]

Do not equate Sports stylist with those evolving out of warfare. If he knows the way of the sword, just leave.

.........................

[Tom Yum]

Oh, and Tom Yum, the 100 man kumite isn't complusory to grade, any of the upper belt gradings requires multiple rounds of kumite with different opponents, but the 50 man and 100 man kumite's are more of a huge honourary Kyokushin thing quite apart from belts. Only 16 people have ever completed a 100 man Kumite and 20 have completed a 50 man Kumite. Masutatsu Oyama (our founder) is the only person to do a 300 man kumite (over 3 days) though. That's tough

Thank you for the clarification, Nips.

[Uke]

A lot of people calling aikido bs have admitted to not having any training or insight into it.

Aikido is a true soft external art, and the highest form of jujitsu. As the level of mastery rises, the movements are smaller and much more subtle.

The reason that so many people speak of aikido as a non-combat art is because it does poorly against non-committed attacks. Aikijitsu, aikido's predecessor, had many more techniques that engaged an enemy rather than waiting to use and borrow an opponent's strength.

Aikido doesn't do well against jabs and low muay thai kicks. Aikido's techniques usually, but not always, rely on the attacker to be moving forward with his weight in motion. Which is why boxing is a nightmare for most people who practice aikido.

But that doesn't mean that aikido techniques cannot be applied in combat situations.

The way I feel about it that unless you start aikido at a very early age so that the movements become natural and second nature, the combat value of aikido is lower than other arts in that aikido take much more time to become proficient at, therefore requiring much more time to use it practically.

I do however feel that every martial artist should take aikido just to experience how fluid and effective its footwork is. ANY fighter from any style could benefit from understanding how to move and evade like an aikido practitioner.

[47MartialMan]

Nice post UKe,

I want to make it clear, that Aikido does have some defense tactics, however, like many arts it has to adapt to a everchanging society with ever-changing attacks/offense from opponents.

The problem I have observed, with due experience, was that its practitioners do not want to change, ddddo not want to examine other arts pros and cons, and are to steadfast in their beliefs, esp of its KI principles.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

I am also starting aikido, I am starting next week.

I have done a few martial arts kung fu ( one year) , kickboxing ( almost a year), wrestling and brazilian jiu jitsu.

honestly, I would also not learn aikido just by itself, BUT.. it definetly does have much to offer and moves that I will add to my repetoire of fighting and grappling skills.

however, if some guy throws a punch my way, no way in hell I will try to put him in some complicated joint lock or throw him over my shoulder, I would use the kickboxing.

but for aikido say I have the guy on the ground, it would be cool to learn some more joint locks to submit him, or if I am standing clinching him, perhaps some aikido moves to lock him in and submit him

wish me luck also

[Uke]

I am also starting aikido, I am starting next week.

I have done a few martial arts kung fu ( one year) , kickboxing ( almost a year), wrestling and brazilian jiu jitsu.

honestly, I would also not learn aikido just by itself, BUT.. it definetly does have much to offer and moves that I will add to my repetoire of fighting and grappling skills.

however, if some guy throws a punch my way, no way in hell I will try to put him in some complicated joint lock or throw him over my shoulder, I would use the kickboxing.

but for aikido say I have the guy on the ground, it would be cool to learn some more joint locks to submit him, or if I am standing clinching him, perhaps some aikido moves to lock him in and submit him

wish me luck also

Good Luck!!!!

[Uke]

however, if some guy throws a punch my way, no way in hell I will try to put him in some complicated joint lock or throw him over my shoulder, I would use the kickboxing.

"Students used to ask me which art I would use for self-defense, Aiki or Karate or would it be Judo? I was dumbfounded at how little they understood the arts which they supposedly studied. My response was, of course, that I would use none of them. Students would then suspect that there was some secret, higher art that I would employ and be quite confused when I said that there was no hidden art that I was keeping from them. I explained that I would simply react and that reaction would be based on my previous training. The answer is so obvious as to be unbelievable to some people. An art, after all, is a training method, not something you have to literally reproduce in order to be able to defend oneself."

[Jiu-fu fighter]

"Students used to ask me which art I would use for self-defense, Aiki or Karate or would it be Judo? I was dumbfounded at how little they understood the arts which they supposedly studied. My response was, of course, that I would use none of them. Students would then suspect that there was some secret, higher art that I would employ and be quite confused when I said that there was no hidden art that I was keeping from them. I explained that I would simply react and that reaction would be based on my previous training. The answer is so obvious as to be unbelievable to some people. An art, after all, is a training method, not something you have to literally reproduce in order to be able to defend oneself."

Yeah, I never really thought about it that way, thanks for clarifying that for me. I guess I have never been in an experience where I don't have the time to think about what I can do( a surprise attack) and i can always semi plan what counters etc... I will do

words of wisdom

[Uke]

Yeah, I never really thought about it that way, thanks for clarifying that for me. I guess I have never been in an experience where I don't have the time to think about what I can do( a surprise attack) and i can always semi plan what counters etc... I will do

words of wisdom

Those words represent my entire argument on the MMA topic as well. This is exactly why one focuses his training toward one end. Your reflexes will only respond one way under the pressure of split second engagements.

When people begin telling you what art is crap and what art is good, ignore those people. Each art has useful and practical techniques if you gear those techniques to be used toward whatever end you wish to be successful.

Aikido has many great practitioners, and they are formidable approaching SD from their standpoint. Its the same for nearly all arts. But if you train for RBSD, then you must tailor your style for maneuvers that work well while keeping yourself safe. There are classical techniques that are antiquated for today's street situations, and those are the techniques that you must shy away from because its the "classical bullshit" that will eventually lead you to getting harmed.

It all boils down to what you're training your reflexes to do. Train them to use direct method techniques and you'll be a fighter. Train your reflexes to attempt to reproduce taijutsu in their entirety and your looking to be killed. The same with sporty methods and approaches to combat. If you train to use methods that are only practical in the ring, what will happen once you are in a fight in the street? Your brain will go to those sporty methods and your response will be based on those methods.

Its artsy vs practical. Its classical form vs direct method. What many teachers won't tell you is that you should learn all of what you can, and then sift through all of it to get to the meat of what you want to accomplish.

Want to be a great fighter? Sift through all of your knowledge and tailor it to be a dirty and direct fighting method.

Want to be a forms champion? Then retain all of your knowledge and practice every movement until you have each one down crisp.

Want to be a historian? Go get books, tapes and train with someone who can teach you the finer points and details about whatever art you train in.

But don't be swayed by people who will tell you to go to one particular style. They're only offering what has worked for them in their own limited experiences, and we are all different people.

The best advice I can give to you is if you're going to study aikido, learn to become content doing what you're doing for as long as you do it. Study hard and long and get what you can from it, not what others tell you what you'll get from it. Also, if you're going to study aikido, try and look into aikijitsu .. a harder, more direct method and the forerunner of aikido. its good to know both the hard and the soft.

IMO aikijitsu will make you a fighter, but aikido will make your skills smaller and softer and more refined.

Good luck.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

I have already noticed that I have already started combining some of the arts I have studied into my own personal style,

mixing hard like the kickboxing I did with some of the softer components of kung fu and adding in my grappling experience. I am starting to think of more combinations for sd applications and so on., I am absolutely sure that aikido will give me something that I can add on and make myself better, maybe i should keep a scrap book and write down ideas for fighting and sd that I come up with and keep refining them until they are almost perfect

thanks for all the advice Uke

and i will keep you informed on my progress

[Uke]

I have already noticed that I have already started combining some of the arts I have studied into my own personal style,

mixing hard like the kickboxing I did with some of the softer components of kung fu and adding in my grappling experience. I am starting to think of more combinations for sd applications and so on., I am absolutely sure that aikido will give me something that I can add on and make myself better, maybe i should keep a scrap book and write down ideas for fighting and sd that I come up with and keep refining them until they are almost perfect

thanks for all the advice Uke

and i will keep you informed on my progress

The founder of my style had several notebooks that he kept in his 80 years in the arts. He was able to to sift through to what was more efficient because he kept what he felt was cutting edge written down. Then as he progressed through the years he was able to further refine what he had previously thought to be cutting edge. A diary like that will not only serve to show your progress, but it will also help you to see the trend in your creativeness at the points you make the changes.

Kickboxing is excellent for physical conditioning and for honing your strikes, but if your intentions are to use your skills for SD, then I'd suggest that you use kickboxing drills to hone your skills, but don't get caught up in the frame of being a kickboxer. In other words, you can learn how to deliver boxing strikes and be effective with them without having to be a boxer. You can throw excellent strikes without adopting boxing principles like jabbing or flurries meant for scoring and not to bring an end to the fight.

This is why its important that you take some time to explore yourself and your options to MAKE SURE you know towards what end you are going to train for. Don't be swayed by bad advice that tells you its okay not to focus on any one objective because then you'll be training without purpose.

Before you continue thinking up combinations, first create a base. I'm not sure how far you've gone in kickboxing, but if you aren't proficient then it isn't your base. To have a base in an art, you must be well versed in its basics. It should be training that you invested considerable time into, not just a couple of weeks or months. It should be what you reflexes are based on at the moment. Once you've mastered the basics, then look to refine your technique by seeing which techniques fit you and are also practical. If you chose another art once you've reached this point, build upon your base and seek to strengthen your already established skills, and find and adopt techniques that will compliment your base skills.

But if you're going to lean toward SD, make sure that EVERYTHING you do is practical. Be ready to discard a technique at a moment's notice once you discover that its risky, isn't practical or conflicts with your base.

Keep in mind that everything that you try won't always be comfortable at first, but that doesn't make it impractical. Sometimes you have to give yourself a learning curve and time to get used to unfamiliar motions. Aikido is full of these. At first, it may not feel natural and almost cumbersome, but with practice and diligence you may find the techniques that are the most difficult to execute have the highest reward.

Lastly, keep in mind that aikido is the art of mastering motion. It transcends ordinary external techniques and will prove much more difficult to master. Some gifted students may find it easy to mimic techniques, but they still won't grasp the underlying principles that make them effective. That's when you'll see people using muscle to execute instead of correct footwork, posture and fluidity to control and redirect. I'm writing all of this for one reason, Jiu-fu fighter. Its so that when things get difficult, you won't quit. Many of the most difficult techniques are thought to be and labeled impractical by those who can't perform them because they are not techniques that can simply be copied or mimicked. There is a "feel" involved. Like internal arts, aikido has a flow to it and requires A LOT of practice. Most people today are looking for quick fixes and short bridges to proficiency. Those people rarely master anything before moving on to something else because they tell themselves that they "got the idea". In other words, master what you're about to undertake and once you're there, consider your options, recognize your weaknesses and then fortify your strengths.

Once you've done that, make whatever you've got as dirty as you can. If you're aiming to be great at SD, tailor whatever you've learned to apply to weapons, weapon disarms and getting back and keeping yourself on your feet where you're mobile. Drop all the big, demonstrative movements and keep all the tight, small efficient ones. You'll be fine.

I'd rather have ten techniques I can fight with, than a hundred that fight me. - Ed Parker

[jubaji]

Oh brother.................................

[Jiu-fu fighter]

Oh brother.................................

What!!??

He gives me good practical advice, and you groan, it is really none of your damn business so stay out of it



thanks uke, I really appreciate all the advice and ideas that you are giving me!!

[Jiu-fu fighter]

once again , thank you uke!

also, I am interested can you tell me about your martial arts history, what styles you do, how you started.

you are a teacher no?