Mas Oyama

[Garland]

Why have you abandoned your ability to reason in this case? Why so desperate to cling to this image?

No...I just don't find the need to shit talk everything. I give credit where it's due. The man's legacy deserves some respect...he did a great deal for the martial arts community as a whole.
I'm not saying to nuthug...I'm saying that you're skepticism is fucking unfounded...and at this point, it's ceased to be healthy skepticism and has crossed over to denial. What's next...joining forces with Dickie to try and discredit the moonlanding?

You're starting to sound more and more like Boar everyday. You need to take a good hard look at your logic, and then stow that shit. You've even ceased to be funny.

I have nothing invested in Oyama. I'm a muay thai guy. In fact...everytime (not fucking often) I see a kyokushin guy beat a thai fighter it pisses me off thouroughly.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

No matter what you believe about Mas Oyama he did chop off the horns of several Bulls, most of the time he had to chop multiple times ( I believe he only managed it in 1 blow a couple of times)
If you believe he had 270 fights or not would be the same as believing Ricksons record
In any case he was a though son of a gun that could fight
He considered the way of competing at that time not to it's liking because although it was a rough kind of semi contact, the more perfect technique would score if place first even though that his techniques would have far more finishing power
He therefore device a way of competing where endurance and fightingspirit is more important that proper technique
This is why you can see two kyokushin fighter standing forehead to forehead leaning forwards hooking to the body and lowkicking

Oyama was no god and neither a Saint, in fact he had been involved with yakuza in his past
Also during the World championships he would threaten to kill himself is a non japanese fighter would become Worldchampion
Or he would influence the refs in such a way that the westerners would be disqualified, example Willie Williams AKA the Bearfighter was disqualified in the semi finals for using the elbows, even though the rules do not mention it as an illegal technique
Also he wasn't very open to the fact that his student would crosstrain in other MA ( Bluming kept his mouth shut to Oyama about him also doing Judo and Jodo)

However his style did bring forth a number of very good fighters
For instance Gerard Cordeau the guy who lost the final of the first UFC to Gracie was billed as a Savate fighter but his primary art Was and still is Kyokushin ( he's now a 9th Dan)

[jubaji]

and it doesn't serve him, or you...

I'm not saying to nuthug....

Bullshit, that's exactly what you're doing.

[Thai Bri]

No matter what you believe about Mas Oyama he did chop off the horns of several Bulls, most of the time he had to chop multiple times ( I believe he only managed it in 1 blow a couple of times)
If you believe he had 270 fights or not would be the same as believing Ricksons record
In any case he was a though son of a gun that could fight
He considered the way of competing at that time not to it's liking because although it was a rough kind of semi contact, the more perfect technique would score if place first even though that his techniques would have far more finishing power
He therefore device a way of competing where endurance and fightingspirit is more important that proper technique
This is why you can see two kyokushin fighter standing forehead to forehead leaning forwards hooking to the body and lowkicking

Oyama was no god and neither a Saint, in fact he had been involved with yakuza in his past
Also during the World championships he would threaten to kill himself is a non japanese fighter would become Worldchampion
Or he would influence the refs in such a way that the westerners would be disqualified, example Willie Williams AKA the Bearfighter was disqualified in the semi finals for using the elbows, even though the rules do not mention it as an illegal technique
Also he wasn't very open to the fact that his student would crosstrain in other MA ( Bluming kept his mouth shut to Oyama about him also doing Judo and Jodo)

However his style did bring forth a number of very good fighters
For instance Gerard Cordeau the guy who lost the final of the first UFC to Gracie was billed as a Savate fighter but his primary art Was and still is Kyokushin ( he's now a 9th Dan)

Much of this post has made me resepct him a little less.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Please guys STOP, if you think none of the bull killing stories are true then tell us exactly why you think so with proper arguments
Same for not believing his 270 fight record come with argument because a lot of these fights have been documented
If you don't believe the 270 record then please also tell if you do believe the 400-0 record of Rickson and why you do or don't believe that.

Kyokushin Karateka have worshiped Oyama like a god but thety are not the only ones to do so with their founder.
I'm no Kyokushinkaika (in Fact I think Kyokushin is lumberjack karate) so I do not worship him ( I don't even worship the founder of Wado the style I'm practicing) but do have a great respect for Oyama as a Karate pioneer, teacher and fighter
Worshipping you do in your religious temple, paying repects in the semitary(seeeing that most are dead)

I do not see anybody worshipping Oyama in this thread nor do I see anybody blindly idolizing him so guys please could you please recact to the real contents instead of hijacking the thread with nonsense

Normally I wouldn't ask but I get fed up that whenever there is a thread I'm interested in gets al freaked up with OT posts or people blaming eachother
't's a freaking discussion forum not a childrens playground

[jubaji]

I do not see anybody worshipping Oyama in this thread nor do I see anybody blindly idolizing him

Then you're not reading very carefully.

Allow me to summarize for you:

pUke: "Oyama is the best! He was like, not even like a human! He was super-human! Nobody today can even understand how he trained! Don't even try to think about it, 'cause you can't! Stop it! I said you can't! These professional fighters today think they're so hot, but they are nothing, NOTHING I TELL YOU! They can't even understand how Oyama trained like a superman. Here's a list of facts about him that I don't backup in any way but if you question it you are a jerk..."

Me: "Here's a video of that 'break off the bull's horn thing. It looks pretty shady from the editing on this video."

Garland: "You shut up! Why don't you believe? Why, WHY?"

Me: "I didn't say I didn't believe it, why do you assume so?"

Garland: "Shut up! You must believe! How could something like that be faked?"

Me, not mentioning explicitly how stupendously easy it would be to fake something like that, and how frequently side show acts like that have been performed for and accepted by audiences all over the world who were largely there because they wanted to see (and therefore wanted to believe) the 'amazing' act, waiting for Garland to jump start his brain enough to at least admit that much, to no avail.

Me: "What's wrong with you today?"

Garland: "Who the hell are you to question? What have you done?"

Me, not mentioning how illogical such a misdirection is in the discussion and wondering why he is getting so defensive.

Me: "Why so defensive?"

Garland: "270 fights! Why don't you believe that?"

Me, not mentioning that no one had brought up or disputed the number of fights or various other accomplishments except folks driven to hysteria at the mere suggestion that the bull horn thing might not have been what it seemed.

Me: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Garland: "Oh, but you believe the Gracie fight record!"

Me, wondering where the hell that fits in the conversation and why it was brought up (several times as it turns out) by folks in a 'bull horn' frenzy - and by no one else.

Me: "Ok, you're an idiot."

Garland: "I'm not worshipping him! I just can't stand to have anything about him questioned in any way!"

Me: "Uh, yeah you are worshipping him."

Garland: "270 fights! Created new organization! Beloved by millions! Gracie! Gracie!"

You: "Leave him alone, no one is idol worshipping. Stop being so disruptive. Oh, and 270 fights! Gracie!"

Me:

[Thai Bri]

yep. Either you accept all the stories and all the hype or you are somehow being disrespectful.

What twaddle!

[Garland]

pUke: "Oyama is the best! He was like, not even like a human! He was super-human! Nobody today can even understand how he trained! Don't even try to think about it, 'cause you can't! Stop it! I said you can't! These professional fighters today think they're so hot, but they are nothing, NOTHING I TELL YOU! They can't even understand how Oyama trained like a superman. Here's a list of facts about him that I don't backup in any way but if you question it you are a jerk..."

Me: "Here's a video of that 'break off the bull's horn thing. It looks pretty shady from the editing on this video."

Garland: "You shut up! Why don't you believe? Why, WHY?"

Me: "I didn't say I didn't believe it, why do you assume so?"

Garland: "Shut up! You must believe! How could something like that be faked?"

Me, not mentioning explicitly how stupendously easy it would be to fake something like that, and how frequently side show acts like that have been performed for and accepted by audiences all over the world who were largely there because they wanted to see (and therefore wanted to believe) the 'amazing' act, waiting for Garland to jump start his brain enough to at least admit that much, to no avail.

Me: "What's wrong with you today?"

Garland: "Who the hell are you to question? What have you done?"

Me, not mentioning how illogical such a misdirection is in the discussion and wondering why he is getting so defensive.

Me: "Why so defensive?"

Garland: "270 fights! Why don't you believe that?"

Me, not mentioning that no one had brought up or disputed the number of fights or various other accomplishments except folks driven to hysteria at the mere suggestion that the bull horn thing might not have been what it seemed.

Me: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Garland: "Oh, but you believe the Gracie fight record!"

Me, wondering where the hell that fits in the conversation and why it was brought up (several times as it turns out) by folks in a 'bull horn' frenzy - and by no one else.

Me: "Ok, you're an idiot."

Garland: "I'm not worshipping him! I just can't stand to have anything about him questioned in any way!"

Me: "Uh, yeah you are worshipping him."

Garland: "270 fights! Created new organization! Beloved by millions! Gracie! Gracie!"

You: "Leave him alone, no one is idol worshipping. Stop being so disruptive. Oh, and 270 fights! Gracie!"

Me:

...Ok...this is fucking hillarious.

I'm sure Oyama had more than 270 "matches" which, by kyokushin rules ain't shit...it's basically a knockdown...old pugilists in the US and UK used to count those as rounds, and sometimes passed over 100 in a single fight. (I guess they bounced up and down like bobo dolls).

Easy to be faked? By him? He'd have to have people colluding with him, he was a martial artist NOT an illusionist. The man went out in the forest to live by himself and hit trees and shit...does that sound like the type of brilliant bastard to have the savvy to pull that shit off? No...it sounds like a simple, hard-working neanderthal. Your "people will believe what they want to" statement detracts NOTHING from my arguement. It's basically a sumation of your bullshit heuristic.

The guy had a good work ethic...his art is pretty much bullshit compared to MUAY THAI, which it stole from...and it doesn't allow punches to the face...which, I'm sorry, if I decide to hit somebody- it's GONNA be in the face.
The only thing I admire about the guy is his take on conditioning and his being a tough old bastard. The same reasons I admire people like Jack Johnson and Dempsey...they were brutish, hard working men.
I don't worship that shit at all...I just appreciate it. I think it's cool when people put effort into things and try to be inovative. Don't you?

If I ever said I liked Oyama better than the majority of modern mma guys, it's for this reason only- he didn't have the "tapout" or "tuf" attitude...which frankly makes me want to shit a frisbee.

[Garland]

yep. Either you accept all the stories and all the hype or you are somehow being disrespectful.

no. I never said nor implied that...in fact, didn't I say that a drunken redneck ex-line backer could probably do the same? If a rodeo hand can tackle a bull to the ground...why couldn't Oyama do the same and with a little leverage...pop it's neck?

Why couldn't any large framed fighter...if they were so inclined?

How about those idiots that do those token break things with concrete slabs and shit... they use leverage and some principles of physics to basically do a trick...what's the difference between doing that to a river rock and doing it with something organic...like a bull's horn. (which really aren't that hard compared to a river rock).

[DickHardman]

no. I never said nor implied that...in fact, didn't I say that a drunken redneck ex-line backer could probably do the same? If a rodeo hand can tackle a bull to the ground...why couldn't Oyama do the same and with a little leverage...pop it's neck?

Why couldn't any large framed fighter...if they were so inclined?

How about those idiots that do those token break things with concrete slabs and shit... they use leverage and some principles of physics to basically do a trick...what's the difference between doing that to a river rock and doing it with something organic...like a bull's horn. (which really aren't that hard compared to a river rock).

theres a video on this forum of a guy lifting hundreds of lbs of weight with his dick. anything is possible.

[Garland]

theres a video on this forum of a guy lifting hundreds of lbs of weight with his dick. anything is possible.

I've slept with girl's that would probably be equivalent to that task...worked in a bit of an exercise by tilting my hips up and doing back arches at the same time...
why>?

BECAUSE I'M A BAD MOTHERFUCKER!

uh...yea...uh huh...

[jubaji]

...

Easy to be faked? By him?

...........................


Yes, yes.

[jubaji]

......which frankly makes me want to shit a frisbee.

You put that on youtube and you'll be famous!

[DickHardman]

what about the hyper dimensional resonator? that one guy told rob and big that a black guy who bought one used it and took off to another dimension. if people can now travel through time and different dimensions, a guy killing a bull really isnt that big of a feat.

[DickHardman]

btw garland, i never really posted anything about the moon hoax stuff, but since you keep mentioning it. here it is, heres proof that all that moon landing stuff was indeed created in a hollywood theater. look at this leaked footage. the apollo program had many setbacks, they were never close to being able to walk on the moon and they knew it. the russian space program was better, faking it was the only way we could have beaten them.

heres the proof. lol just look at the footage of them walking around, it so doesnt look right.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNLaUE[/YOUTUBE]