Principle of Flow VS One Punch, One Kill

[Hardball]

Legal angle or not, this is developing into a ridiculous argument.

I don't to what I do for self-defence. There IS more to MA than streetfighting you know...

I live in and near New York City. End of argument. Have a nice day.

[ScottUK]

That's you and not me.

I have to believe that everyone studying anytype of martial art

Is that everyone inside (and near) New York City then? Please don't think that your theories apply to the world.

[elliotNess]

Personally, If I can get off one good shot to a vital spot--- I feel I would have the advantage against almost anyone of my size and skill level.

[whitebelt]

This is a good topic and remember this is the Japanese forum. A lot of Japanese arts promote the one punch, one kill strategy. One kill does not have to literally mean kill someone; it just means win the fight on a good blow. Look at Hasseem Rachman vs Lennox Lewis or Buster Douglas VS Mike Tyson...........if those guys can do it in 8 o.z. gloves imagine what you can do with conditioned knuckles or feet. Try to stay on topic and forego the personal attacks.

[Hardball]

That's you and not me.Is that everyone inside (and near) New York City then? Please don't think that your theories apply to the world.

I have to admit, you are right about that.

[ScottUK]

Peace?

This is a good topic and remember this is the Japanese forum. A lot of Japanese arts promote the one punch, one kill strategy.

Yep, it's an interesting thread - and while most (all?) empty-handed Japanese stylists should strive for the one perfect blow, in reality it just isn't guaranteed. Renraku waza should be practiced heavily but hopefully not needed!

[Uke]

If the one hit/one kill method was easily attained, everyone would choose it, but its not.

The last man who possessed that level of power and conditioning to my knowledge was Mas Oyama aka The God Hand. In theory, one hit/one kill is the ideal method. If you could damage an opponent no matter where you hit him, be it his arms, ribs, or legs the you would have accomplished something that most men aspire to.

But acquiring that kind of discipline and power is almost unheard of these days. It required men to condition his hands to the point of deformity. It takes years and years of dedicated conditioning to even approach a level where you can hit like the master who exemplified the God Hand.

He proved it in matches against fighters from many different disciplines. Usually one shot is all it took. If he hit you, he broke you no matter what his strike landed on. That is true ikken hisatsu.

Predicating your training on this principle without being able to deliver like Oyama means you like and respect what he did and want to be like him, but that doesn't make you like him. Just because you acknowledge that ikken hisatsu is rare and an awesome level to attain doesn't make it practical to adhere to standards that you aren't fully dedicated to reaching.

In a perfect world where we all could attain that level, I'd pick one strike/one kill too. But there are so very few in this world that can guarantee that kind of power and result.

Flow is not necessary to fight, as no higher level skill is. It just increases you ability to be more formidable.

[Hardball]

If the one hit/one kill method was easily attained, everyone would choose it, but its not.

The last man who possessed that level of power and conditioning to my knowledge was Mas Oyama aka The God Hand. In theory, one hit/one kill is the ideal method. If you could damage an opponent no matter where you hit him, be it his arms, ribs, or legs the you would have accomplished something that most men aspire to.

But acquiring that kind of discipline and power is almost unheard of these days. It required men to condition his hands to the point of deformity. It takes years and years of dedicated conditioning to even approach a level where you can hit like the master who exemplified the God Hand.

He proved it in matches against fighters from many different disciplines. Usually one shot is all it took. If he hit you, he broke you no matter what his strike landed on. That is true ikken hisatsu.

Predicating your training on this principle without being able to deliver like Oyama means you like and respect what he did and want to be like him, but that doesn't make you like him. Just because you acknowledge that ikken hisatsu is rare and an awesome level to attain doesn't make it practical to adhere to standards that you aren't fully dedicated to reaching.

This is interesting stuff. Do you mind if I ask for your source? I may want to read into it further. Isn't he the founder of Akido?

[ScottUK]

Mas Oyama info on Wikipedia.

[Uke]

Better yet:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?t=23525

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

I don't remember reading that in Go Rin no Sho. In addition to that, it is also not done in Musashi's swordsmanship style.

"When you have cut downwards with the long sword, lift it straight upwards, when you cut sideways, return the sword along a sideways path"

from the book of wind. this is from some translation i found online. i don't have the translation i read because it was borrowed from a friend, but in that translation it was even more explicit, return your sword back along the same plane so you can do it again.

[BoarSpear]

There is a rule in the Internal arts that says, "Never do anything more than 3 times in a row." This is because up to 3 attacks can be repeated without overextending but number 4 most always destroys your own balance.

[ScottUK]

"When you have cut downwards with the long sword, lift it straight upwards, when you cut sideways, return the sword along a sideways path"

Sorry, but that is furikaburi - not cutting/striking.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Sorry, but that is furikaburi - not cutting/striking.

you got me... i don't know what that means

[Uke]

This is interesting stuff. Do you mind if I ask for your source? I may want to read into it further. Isn't he the founder of Akido?

There is a book that is rather hard to find titled "What is Karate?". If you'd like to learn about Oyama you should find that book.