Mas Oyama vs Helio Gracie(in their primes)

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Considering it was anything goes, who would win?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Considering it was anything goes, who would win?

I gotta say Oyama hands down. Keep in mind his judo was plenty good to keep the fight standing against Helio where his fists would wreak havoc.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/oyama/

after reading this... well I would say oyama..

[Jiu-fu fighter]

I mean Helio is pretty damn great......

but oyama, has killed a man with one punch, has killed around fifty full grown bulls with just his hands,

the training he did was unbelievable, he was pure muscle and callous

He would have mauled helio

[Garland]

What if Helio and Oyama had a kid with Bruce Lee?
What if that kid trained under Leo Gaje?
What if it was raised by wolves and ate nothing but gunpowder and raw meat everyday? What if all it had to drink was blood, Jameson whiskey, and the tears of wounded grisley bears?

Then it would be Vin Deisel.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

What if Helio and Oyama had a kid with Bruce Lee?
What if that kid trained under Leo Gaje?
What if it was raised by wolves and ate nothing but gunpowder and raw meat everyday? What if all it had to drink was blood, Jameson whiskey, and the tears of wounded grisley bears?

Then it would be Vin Deisel.

sounds more like chuck norris to me

[Tom Yum]

I mean Helio is pretty damn great......

but oyama, has killed a man with one punch, has killed around fifty full grown bulls with just his hands,

the training he did was unbelievable, he was pure muscle and callous

He would have mauled helio

Old school karateka were proficient judoka too, right?

[Uke]

Considering it was anything goes, who would win?

Well 7r14ngL3Ch0k3, you know that my vote would have to go to Oyama. Keep in mind that Oyama welcomed all comers back when Helio and his family were supposedly doing the same. I don't think it was any coincidence that the Gracie family missed a match with Oyama. Especially after having felt the quality of Kimura's training.

Kimura, like Oyama, was a training fanatic.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

ooooooohhh... I never thought about that...

so you think oyama challenged Helio gracie??

that is interesting

[Thai Bri]

Oyama couldn't tie his shoelaces. Gracie would get inside those damaged hands, take him down and snap his arm off.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Old school karateka were proficient judoka too, right?

I don't know if that was a general truth, but Oyama certainly was. If i try to give any specifics off the top of my head Uke will just end up having to correct me, but i know Oyama was a top class judoka in his own right, and in older kyokushin footage you can see the influence is still there.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

What if Helio and Oyama had a kid with Bruce Lee?
What if that kid trained under Leo Gaje?
What if it was raised by wolves and ate nothing but gunpowder and raw meat everyday? What if all it had to drink was blood, Jameson whiskey, and the tears of wounded grisley bears?

Then it would be Vin Deisel.

That was really good, did you come up with that?

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Well 7r14ngL3Ch0k3, you know that my vote would have to go to Oyama. Keep in mind that Oyama welcomed all comers back when Helio and his family were supposedly doing the same. I don't think it was any coincidence that the Gracie family missed a match with Oyama. Especially after having felt the quality of Kimura's training.

Kimura, like Oyama, was a training fanatic.

I wasnt sure if Oyama and Helio were in the same time period, but since they lived really far apart, that would be why they never fought.

Im not sure how good Helio was at taking guys down, let alone knowing how to properly avoid strikes and time/set up the takedown, but if it did go to the ground, i still dont think Helio could have finished him.

Oyama by brutal KO

Does anyone have any footage of Oyama?

[Garland]

That was really good, did you come up with that?

uh...yeah. like, p'sha.

[Uke]

ooooooohhh... I never thought about that...

so you think oyama challenged Helio gracie??

that is interesting

Kimura was Oyama's friend and mentor. And to a degree, Thai Bri is right. Oyama's hands were deformed from extreme conditioning. But damaged? They weren't damaged to a degree that they weren't near perfect for combat. One hit, certain death, my man. That says it all.

And by the way, did anyone know both Kado and Kimura threw Helio Gracie around like a rag doll in their matches? Even though Kado lost to an eventual choke, he had executed techniques that in his native Japan would have won him the match. My point is that Helio Gracie, while being adept at chokes and armbars from newaza range, was no match for a well trained judoka on his feet. Oyama had extensive experience as a judoka(4th dan) and had dozens of matches against similarly trained judoka in his 270 unbeaten no holds barred matches against judoka, boxers, wrestlers and karate fighters. That goes to prove that Oyama had more than his share of fighting experience with grapplers and their tactics. Those matches took place in America in 1952, one year after Helio lost to Kimura. Many were televised.

Helio certainly knew of Oyama, as Oyama had sent students to Brazil and abroad to represent his way of karate. But Helio wanted no part of Oyama. In fact, its my understanding that Helio was dealing with his own issues after being knocked out by Aldemar Santana a year before Kimura returned to Brazil to fight Santana to a draw.