Sacrifice throws in self-defence

[Heroic Wolf]

Are the sacrifice throws utilized in judo very effective in self-defence? Personally, I don't think so since:
1. They involve you falling onto the ground as you throw them, which can hurt if its on cement
2. Bear hug throws from a clinch as in Greco-Roman wrestling can throw an attacker in the same direction as a sacrifice throw would, but with a much stronger grip grip on the attacker
3. If you screw up, you fall down to the ground and get stomped

[Tant01]

Everything has it's place and time...

Are the sacrifice throws utilized in judo very effective in self-defence? Personally, I don't think so .....

WHO are you?

Sutemi waza is divided into two sub groups of techniques. 5 (rear) Ma sutemi and 15 (side) yoko sutemi.

If you think these groups of techniques are useless then I can only assume you have never played the Judo?


Tomoe nage and Ura nage are two of my personal favorite sacrifice throws for SD...Nothing like cracking a skull.

[Heroic Wolf]

I didn't mean to offend you. Yes I am confused, that's why I want everybody's input.

[Tant01]

No offense at all?

Let me put it this way... In my opinion sacrifice throws are useful for self defense. I'm sure you can find opinions that are the OPPOSITE of mine. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone anything if they already have an opinion. I'm not here to convince you, argue or belittle the instruction of other "professional artists"

I (for MY part) have found sacrifice throws to be very effective. (esp. counter techniques)

But don't take MY word for anything....

An Evaluation of the Technical and Tactical Aspects of Judo Matches at the Seniors Level

Stanislaw Sterkowicz and Pawel Maslej

Division of Combat Sports
Academy of Physical Education
Krakow, Poland

Translated and edited by Witold F. Krajewski and Gerald Lafon of Judo America.

.....

"we noted nearly 35% effectiveness of YOKO-SUTEMI-WAZA (YOKO-OTOSHI, TANI-OTOSHI and UKI-WAZA.
Thus, every third attempt was successful.

Next placed another group of sacrifice techniques, i.e. MA-SUTEMI-WAZA (TOMOE-NAGE, SUMI-GAESHI and URA-NAGE, total of 23 attacks, or 3%). In this case every fifth attempt was awarded points."

"Based on the analyzed material we observed that a large number of attacks are not effective. This is confirmed by ASHI WAZA, represented by 10 techniques and TE WAZA, with nine techniques. Unquestionably these techniques dominated, comprising 85% of all TACHI WAZA attempts (326, or 41% and 349, or 44%, respectively), but their effectiveness was just 12%. This means that merely every eighth attack had an effect on the match's outcome.

Even worse effectiveness was observed for the hip throws (HARAI-GOSHI, O-GOSHI, USHIRO-GOSHI and SODE-TSURIKOMI-GOSHI comprised about 5% of all attacks and their effectiveness was less than 3%. Both the frequency of attempts as well as the lack of their effectiveness demonstrate increasingly weaker position of hip throws in judo competition."

........

In OTHER words for those with little tiny oxygen starved brains (and pot smokers) SUTEMI WAZA are HIGH percentage throws.

They "work"... IF "YOU" can use them.

http://www.judoamerica.com/ijca/sterkowicz/sterkowicz.doc

[sojobow]

Are the sacrifice throws utilized in judo very effective in self-defence? Personally, I don't think so since:
1. They involve you falling onto the ground as you throw them, which can hurt if its on cement..........

Why do I feel you're trying to trap everyone? Seems you're looking at these judo forms being implemented by someone with minimal training. Actually, you can say the same thing about any phase of martial arts: make mistakes and you're on the ground.

Probably though, any technique you use should be first "set up." If you set up the throw beforehand, you've probably already finished the opponent and the throw is just making things definate. Take Tomeo Nage for example: the opponent is fully energized, not tired. You circle throw him and he just rolls up ready for more. You didn't set him up for an effective throw/finish.

Take the same throw: First, you've dislocated his elbow, added force to his groin, headbutted the opponent and, while he's somewhat dazed, you throw him/her tomo and held on ending up in your mount then you use him to assist you in rolling up fast. (Definately, if you've got a bad back - you MUST first set him up)

You know, I just thought of something else: who's in the best/safest position - the guy laying on his back or your standing up?

[Tant01]

Some good on you

......

...Take the same throw: First, you've dislocated his elbow, added force to his groin, headbutted the opponent and, while he's somewhat dazed, you throw him/her tomo and held on ending up in your mount then you use him to assist you in rolling up fast. (Definately, if you've got a bad back - you MUST first set him up)

.....

Now you're talking...

[DSA]

the three elements of combat

Are the sacrifice throws utilized in judo very effective in self-defence? Personally, I don't think so since:
1. They involve you falling onto the ground as you throw them, which can hurt if its on cement
2. Bear hug throws from a clinch as in Greco-Roman wrestling can throw an attacker in the same direction as a sacrifice throw would, but with a much stronger grip grip on the attacker
3. If you screw up, you fall down to the ground and get stomped

The first lessson in judo is learning to fall,(UKEMI). And after weeks of learning to fall, you get to learn some throws,(nage waza). Judo also as an excellent ground game called KATAME WAZA, which includes hold-down techniques,(osae-komi-waza), strangling techniques,(shime-waza) and joint lock techniques called (kansetsu-waza). So after your sacrifice throw lands you and your uke on the ground, you get to start the grappling game.

[Tant01]

The first lessson in judo is learning to fall,(UKEMI). .....

Actually... the first lesson would be HOW TO TIE YOUR OBI...

[DSA]

the three elements of combat.

[QUOTE=Tant01;302714]Actually... the first lesson would be HOW TO TIE YOUR OBI...

Yes, you right correct!

[Marksmarkou]

For self defence Its always best to not go to the floor unless absolutly neccesary. The reason being because, these days you end up fighting not just one person but many and if your on the floor it would be more difficult to defend yourself.

However some sacrifice throws where you bring the opponent down and keep the momentum to carry on rolling on top of them or back up can be usefull. Tani Otoshi or Yoko Otoshi for example.