aikido

[GrdStorm]

Kluten...

Does it take a long time to get good?? depends on how hard you train.


Does it work in the STREET??? YES if you know how to apply the techniques.yes

[kluten]

Originally posted by GrdStorm
NHB events mean nothing in the street... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

NHB is FULL Contact... but still has a lot of rules.

Can't eye gouge, strike to the through, kick in the nads, c'mon bro those are all legitimate street fighting techniques. Oh yeah also no finger locks, wrist locks (now sure about that one) toe locks and whatever else.

NHB is the toughest event out there today but it still has nothing on real street fighting.

Also grapplers can't take on multiple opponents which does happen on the street. Even if your Royce Gracie, 5-10 guys will beat your ass on the street.

Aikido addresses real life combat, taking on multiple opponents and keeping damage to yourself at a minimum.

Grapplers , even most strikers have to take a little to a lot of damage before they win a fight.

Just something to think about.

well i would like to see the man who is able tio fight of 10 guys with out getting hit him self. impressing

[GrdStorm]

Does it take a long time to learn??? DEPENDS on how hard you train.


does it work in the street??? YES if you know how to apply the techniques.

[kluten]

Originally posted by Qkfx
Grdstrom is completely wrong.

First of all, the various attacks you mentioned such as nut shots, eye gouges etc can't be done if the other guy is controlling the position, as a grappler will, or controlling the distance and peppering you with shots, as a striker can. You could know every trick in the book but you can't EXECUTE it against someone superior in these areas. Do you think because I know a nut strike or throat shot my chances are improved against a Coleman or Vanderlai?! Guys with these skills are more capable of pulling out the dirty trick then some idiot depending on the trick to get him through.

Secondly-the argument that grapplers can not take on multiple opponents while some dancing akido pansy, who can't realistically deal with a single attacker, can is complete horse doo. Striking and controlling the distance would be better, but grapplers, such as Newton have shown that a quick slam in a street fight can get rid of one opponent quickly or if you have a guy down on concrete and hit or smash his skull into the concrete chances are you will END HIM quicker than standing strikes .

Finally the idea that akido is for real life and keeps your own damage down is complete crap with no basis in reality. If it can't be proven effective against a single man with skill then how the hell are you going to beat several non-ukes?!

Akido is completely unrealistic, no akido guy has done crap in reality combat ,which does have alot to do with the street because the majority of elements are the same, and they never will.

Akido may work against some homeless guy grabbing for your change or against a wife going for your credit card, but that's it.

agreed

[GrdStorm]

well with grappling you'll most likely get stabbed.

Aikido atleast you have a chance with the techniques they teach you.

[GrdStorm]

Ahaha ok ok then let me prove it, come to my house I'll have have a knife, try to tackle me down, see how deep the knife does into your body.

[kluten]

Originally posted by GrdStorm
People have BLIND faith in their grappling.

Why the hell are you talking like your going to fight NHB fighters on the street??? Fact of the matter is "90% of the fights go to the ground" is complete bullshit. On the street if someone wants to mug you, they'll have a weapon, what does BJJ or any other grappling art teach you how to defend against that? Yeah they tell you to shoot for the takedown but chances are your going to get stabed, slashed, your hit with a bat before that happens. If they don't have a weapon, they'll have a couple buddies with them. If you take the fight to the ground, ur gunna get your ass kicked by the other guys. If you trade punches, you'll probably be boxing 1 guy while the others sneak behind you. One of the keys to aikido is immobilize someone who is striking at you as fast as possible and get away.

I'm completely wrong that a grappler can't take on multiple opponents??? your a complete moron if you think grappling is anything more than a 1v1 kind of deal.

Please shut up with the NHB thing. Aikido in theory is suppose to protect the attacker, therfore any damage done is very little or so its suppose to be. The basis of Aikido is not to inflict damage or to start comflicts, therfore it would be illogical for an Aikidoist to even compete in a NHB competition.

If Aikido is so useless, why do police forces teach officers aikido moves?

To hardcore 1v1 fighters, aikido looks like crap because the philosophy of the art is to get away from a conflict and not to hurt someone. SELF-DEFENSE to me is to get out of a situation as fast as possible, why the hell would I want to wrestle a guy to ground in the middle of the street? Wait for some of his buddies to smash my face in with a pipe?

For a person who wants to learn to FIGHT, no nonesense, of course they would learn such arts as grappling and boxing but if someone wants to learn straight self-defense, a little aikido is a very good idea. When you say aikido is total crap, you are totally wrong. different martial arts have different applications.

i am convinced, aikido is nothing but a pyjamas thing.

i'll go with bjj or grappling.

[kluten]

do you wanne know why?

if you are an exaple of an akidoist, well i have to say you make a sorry impression. I don't wanne end up like you whining about how great things is comperred to othere styles, when you don't hav leverage behind your words.

[GrdStorm]

Whoa what the hell?? Is everyone like you where you come from? Dumb ignorant asshole???

I take Russian Sambo and San Shou/Muay Thai buddy.

I don't take Aikido because I like to fight

But if I were to just learn self defense, maybe for the street I think Aikido is a pretty good choice.

You should have asked "is Aikido good for beating someone's ass???" then your answer would be no.

Anyway whatever you want, I myself love grappling and striking but I do have certain respect for aikido.

Also if you really want to insult me, why don't you do it to my face. If your ever in NYC I'll give you my number and we can have a little talk.





BTW you want proof that Aikido works??? Go talk to some NYC police officers.

[GrdStorm]

Ahhhhh I am sadly mistaken. If you want to learn REAL street fighting techniques that work???

take Arnis and Kali, Stick fighting and knife fighting, no matter what you take u'll get ****ed up by someone that knows how to use a knife.

[kluten]

i am sorry that your so far away, but i might take you up on your offer. i CAN'T PROMISS THAT I COULD BEET YO, BUT I WOULD REALLY ENJOY TRYING

[Flash]

Yes, Aikido can be very effective...

...if your assailant obligingly attacks you in slow motion and over-extends himself each and every time. In this case, you will lay down a smackdown of medieval proportions on him.

Seriously, though -

- someone asked why Aikido was taught to police departments. I think this has more to do with the litiginous environment in the US more than anything else. In the old days before the "age of the wimp", the police relied on their night stick, basic boxing and a good old soccer kick to the nuts. Now, if the police do this, they are bound to be videotaped by someone who will then sell the tape to FOX NEWS and the next thing you know, someone is yelling "foul" and suing the police department. Even the Tokyo Metropolitan Police which trains in Yoshinkan Aikido relies also on Judo and Kendo training to round out their Aikido - I have a feeling that Aikido only comes into play with a semi-compliant suspect or after several officers dogpile on a single suspect.

Another person mentioned that against a knife, Aikido techniques will save your life while grappling will get you killed. While I have no desire to try to shoot in for a double-leg takedown on someone wielding a knife, I also have no desire to try to attempt to catch some knife wielding maniac's knife-hand and attempt kote-gaeshi on him. It is true that many Aikido techniques can be found in one form or another in many styles - however, the WAY these techniques are practice in Aikido severely handicaps the practitioner. When I was taking Aikido, many of the practitioners had no idea how to go about effectively attacking anyone with a knife so when it came time to practice knife defense, every one attacked using off-balance, over-committed lunges. In reality, a knifer would probably charge in do a variation of a "hockey fight" attack except instead of punching, his knife would be pumped into your abdomen repeatedly. That is, assuming the knifer didn't just sneak up behind you and stick you in the back.

However, with that being said, I feel that Aikido can be made an effective art. If techniques were trained progressively such that eventually, they were practiced in a "free sparring" environment and atemi (striking) techniques were re-incorporated into the curricula (many Aikido schools tend to de-emphasize atemi) and if a bunch of FMA practitioners were brought in for the Aikidoka to practice their knife defenses against (it may be a good idea for them to bring in boxers to practice their punching defenses against as well), THEN I suppose Aikido could be street-effective. But good luck finding an Aikido school like that. I believe there is one in New York that calls itself "Combat Aikido". One could argue, however, that such an art would no longer be "Aikido".

The bottom line is - O'Sensei and the first generation of Aikidoka that he trained ALL had training in other arts and this no doubt helped them in training - they knew how to attack "properly". The problem in many Aikido schools now is that many people just don't know how to throw a decent punch and end up sort of pawing the air in front of their partner's face allowing tori slap on a wicked kote-gaeshi or pull off a sexy irimi-nage...but good luck pulling that off against some guy who's charging in with evil intentions. Cross-training is the obvious answer.

Bill Lewis who writes reviews for NHB tapes also brings up the fact that Aikido was an art that evolved from Aikijutsu, an art which pretty much assumes that EVERYONE has a sword - that it why so many techniques are designed to counter a grab to the hand...if you wanted to stick someone with a sword, you'd probably grab their sword hand (to prevent them from drawing THEIR sword), while you drew yours. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a sword carrying society. So one could argue that until people begin carrying swords again, Aikido is sort of irrelevant from the standpoint of modern self-defense (although, admittedly, many Aikido techniques work very nicely from the standpoint of gun disarms).

[doubleouch]

OK you guys are all missing the mark. The techniques of Aikido are great. The training methods of Aikido are bullshit. They don't train against uncooperative opponents. You must train against uncooperative opponents to learn techniques. My instructor says that you really don't know a technique unless you can pull it off against an uncooperative opponent in full contact sparring.

[kluten]

Re: Yes, Aikido can be very effective...

Originally posted by Flash
...if your assailant obligingly attacks you in slow motion and over-extends himself each and every time. In this case, you will lay down a smackdown of medieval proportions on him.

Seriously, though -

- someone asked why Aikido was taught to police departments. I think this has more to do with the litiginous environment in the US more than anything else. In the old days before the "age of the wimp", the police relied on their night stick, basic boxing and a good old soccer kick to the nuts. Now, if the police do this, they are bound to be videotaped by someone who will then sell the tape to FOX NEWS and the next thing you know, someone is yelling "foul" and suing the police department. Even the Tokyo Metropolitan Police which trains in Yoshinkan Aikido relies also on Judo and Kendo training to round out their Aikido - I have a feeling that Aikido only comes into play with a semi-compliant suspect or after several officers dogpile on a single suspect.

Another person mentioned that against a knife, Aikido techniques will save your life while grappling will get you killed. While I have no desire to try to shoot in for a double-leg takedown on someone wielding a knife, I also have no desire to try to attempt to catch some knife wielding maniac's knife-hand and attempt kote-gaeshi on him. It is true that many Aikido techniques can be found in one form or another in many styles - however, the WAY these techniques are practice in Aikido severely handicaps the practitioner. When I was taking Aikido, many of the practitioners had no idea how to go about effectively attacking anyone with a knife so when it came time to practice knife defense, every one attacked using off-balance, over-committed lunges. In reality, a knifer would probably charge in do a variation of a "hockey fight" attack except instead of punching, his knife would be pumped into your abdomen repeatedly. That is, assuming the knifer didn't just sneak up behind you and stick you in the back.

However, with that being said, I feel that Aikido can be made an effective art. If techniques were trained progressively such that eventually, they were practiced in a "free sparring" environment and atemi (striking) techniques were re-incorporated into the curricula (many Aikido schools tend to de-emphasize atemi) and if a bunch of FMA practitioners were brought in for the Aikidoka to practice their knife defenses against (it may be a good idea for them to bring in boxers to practice their punching defenses against as well), THEN I suppose Aikido could be street-effective. But good luck finding an Aikido school like that. I believe there is one in New York that calls itself "Combat Aikido". One could argue, however, that such an art would no longer be "Aikido".

The bottom line is - O'Sensei and the first generation of Aikidoka that he trained ALL had training in other arts and this no doubt helped them in training - they knew how to attack "properly". The problem in many Aikido schools now is that many people just don't know how to throw a decent punch and end up sort of pawing the air in front of their partner's face allowing tori slap on a wicked kote-gaeshi or pull off a sexy irimi-nage...but good luck pulling that off against some guy who's charging in with evil intentions. Cross-training is the obvious answer.

Bill Lewis who writes reviews for NHB tapes also brings up the fact that Aikido was an art that evolved from Aikijutsu, an art which pretty much assumes that EVERYONE has a sword - that it why so many techniques are designed to counter a grab to the hand...if you wanted to stick someone with a sword, you'd probably grab their sword hand (to prevent them from drawing THEIR sword), while you drew yours. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a sword carrying society. So one could argue that until people begin carrying swords again, Aikido is sort of irrelevant from the standpoint of modern self-defense (although, admittedly, many Aikido techniques work very nicely from the standpoint of gun disarms).

seems like you know a wholelot about this, thanx for your post :-)

[Guest]

I am a Police Officer. When I joined the Force they were still teaching those twisty wristy Aikido moves. I can tell you from personal experience that they do not work.

They no longer teach that nonsense, and only ever did so because it sounded politically correct to train us techniques that would "protect the attacker".

Well, they did protect the attacker. Unfortunately, they did NOT protect the defender.

I never said that you should grapple when you face more than one attacker. Stand up skills are always first for me. But I want stand up skills that work in practice, rather than just in theory.

People do NOT offer their wrists as a gift like they do in an Aikido class.

"Ahaha ok ok then let me prove it, come to my house I'll have have a knife, try to tackle me down, see how deep the knife does into your body."

Tell you what. You come to MY house. You use your Aikido to defend yourself against MY knife. But bring a friend. It will take two people to pull that knife out of your guts.


No one said that NHB is knife defence. But you reckon Aikido IS. As other people have said, it only defends against the knifeman who waves it about in front of you and obligingly falls over for you.