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**kungfupanda** · 02-28-2003, 07:26 PM

"Karate" is wonderfull, but there are so many different types. but generally, karate is awsome once you free up the hands a bit and shallow up the stances. it is very powerfull, fast, moble, and flowing. you can become a awsome fighter without katas but they do help.

i dont know what other people study it for but i study it to fight and thats it.

**platinum_angel** · 02-28-2003, 08:00 PM

i have taken the exact type of karate you are describing. okinawan goju-ryu so i'll tell you what i think

The main purpose of Karate is for health benefits.

if that case why don't we just take lifetime fitness. that will be better for fitness then karate.

The purpose of Karate is to make the body like iron, or as hard as rock. Your hands and feet should be used like the points of arrows.

then just pump iron. i know for a fact the arrow pointed hand works when you hit your opponent in the solarplex but there is just to much risk involved.

Karate cannot be learned in a short amount of time.

why would we take more of our precious time to learn something that is not as good and fast as muay thai or lifetime fitness.

4 and 5

let me explain this-you should stand upright in onw of those stances and be totally static. now if you were in horse stance all anyone would have to do is push you over.

You should practice the external techniques of Karate one by one

basically practice you predetermined kata- another waste of time.

You must decide for yourself why you practice Karate

most of the time the reason people get in to karate is because they need the recognition, they think their tough with a black belt, they saw it on a cartoon, they think its cool, and so on.

During practice you should imagine that you are in a real battle.

alright thats cool and all but not realistic when your doing the same predetermined moves over again.

Do not overexert yourself during practice, because your ch'i will rise up, your face and eyes will turn red and you will bring injury to your body. Be careful of this.

damn can't remember the last time my head almost exploded and my eyes started bleeding

.

In the past, many of those who have become experts in Karate have lived to an old age.

so have a bunch of other people excersiced and had a good diet.

when they are alone and outnumbered, will literally be able to win against ten attackers.

bull shit

**ramus** · 02-28-2003, 10:13 PM

I second platinum angel

**shasan** · 02-28-2003, 11:24 PM

Karate's great for developing focus, discipline and all that good stuff, plus you develop nice high-kicks. But if you're looking to go against multiple attackers who are ok fighters, karate is just not a good thing.

Too much focus on strength and power, and not enough on speed and mobility from what i have seen.

Katas: again, good for focus, discipline etc etc, but crap in a street fight.

My suggestion, read some Bruce Lee, and keep in mind the 4 ranges: kicking, punching, trapping/locking, throwing/grappling. And go from there... and don't limit yourself to one thing. Tae kwon do has great kicks. Western boxing, muay thai, and wing chun kung fu has great handwork, and Judo/Jiu-Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu are great for the fourth range.

kinda sorta see what I'm saying?

Sameer.

**kungfupanda** · 02-28-2003, 11:48 PM

i think alot of you are a bit closed minded. find a good dojo and learn karate...i recomend tuite or kyokushin-kai. it is worth while.

**shasan** · 03-01-2003, 03:58 AM

I wouldn't say that... read my post again, I'm sure you agree that taking from the best of every art is probably the way to go.

Look at how Mixed martial arts competitions have evolved... before it was 'style vs. style', now it's fighter vs. fighter, they are all well rounded (in all ranges).

Learn one style vs. learn the best of many styles. Which one is closed minded?

Keep your hands up,
Sameer.

**Lost Ronin** · 03-09-2003, 12:55 AM

Well, I studied authentic Japanese Karate under Master Masaharu Sakimukai ( type "Chintokan Karate" in a search engine for more info) and I can tell you, Karate is a very powerful style. What I did was that I kept all the Karate moves that I found useful and direct and combined them with Western Boxing. Talk about really good hand strikes! If you want to study good karate I recommend Kyokushin or Shorin Ryu. Shorin Ryu is the style that I learned, Karate is a complete system, thing is, some of the teaching methods are out dated and some techniques have to be modified, but over all, it's a kick ass style. If you want to pick up some good viewing material, look for "Marco Lala's Fighting Secrets" tape series, he teaches a stand up style that draws from Kyokushin Karate, Western Boxing, Muay Thai and Vale Tudo. Hope this helps. By the way, your research is pretty good.

**Toudiyama** · 03-26-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Lost Ronin
Well, I studied authentic Japanese Karate under Master Masaharu Sakimukai ( type "Chintokan Karate" in a search engine for more info) and I can tell you, Karate is a very powerful style. What I did was that I kept all the Karate moves that I found useful and direct and combined them with Western Boxing. Talk about really good hand strikes! If you want to study good karate I recommend Kyokushin or Shorin Ryu. Shorin Ryu is the style that I learned, Karate is a complete system, thing is, some of the teaching methods are out dated and some techniques have to be modified, but over all, it's a kick ass style. If you want to pick up some good viewing material, look for "Marco Lala's Fighting Secrets" tape series, he teaches a stand up style that draws from Kyokushin Karate, Western Boxing, Muay Thai and Vale Tudo. Hope this helps. By the way, your research is pretty good.

Started out in Judo because my Dad is a teacher in that, then went over to Wado karate which is not so hard as Kyokushin but instead stresses not being hit and soft blocking and evasion of an attack, because of this my base is such that I can train anything without any problems
As long as the base is good, it is easy
If I'm training, I train that specific style, if for whatever reason I have to fight, it is combined

Point for initial poster, even though you learn to retract the oposing arm during basics, this is not the way it is done during sparring(maybe shotokan) nor do we leave our fist out there, the punching are is retracted as fast as possible
Difference in punching is that if you pull your punch trough the object you might knock someone of his socks but the fast retracted punch might break or do internal damage
one fight I was in I punched someone with a perfect reverse punch(gyaku tsuki) he was pushed 3 meters backwards
then I turned around and his famaly punched me in the through pulling way, I didn't move and 10 sec later I didbn't feel anything anymore, 3 weeks later my family spoke with the guy I punched and he still had pain from it
Also karate if correctly practiced will teach you to look for the best place to hit instead of just any place
turn your back to a karateka for a second and he will punch it
forget to protect the groin, auch

**ramus** · 03-26-2003, 09:50 PM

just study hapkido, dont waste your time on karate

**Tom Yum** · 03-26-2003, 10:47 PM

crazyjoe, you've done your homework. I think alot of things can be said of many arts - watching for instructors who never demonstrate etc. For closed hand strikes, I would rather use boxing. The right cross is more powerful than the reverse punch and recovers faster. When I first started boxing, my coach could tell that I was formerly TKD/karate based. The right cross explodes and once it penetrates its target its brought back to your cheek in a quick yet relaxed fashion. The reverse punch, comes out with a lot of power, with the other hand pulled to the waist for additional power, but leaves your entire left side exposed. THis is bad if someone hits you at the same time. The open hand strikes of karate seem to be good for striking vital areas.

I agree with the last post that says karate weighs heavily on power rather than speed/fluidity. Joe Lewis (the kickboxer) fought a traditional karate guy in the 70's and used boxing tactics, with karate kicks to knock the karate guy out. This match had the same effect on traditional martial arts at that time as Royce Gracie had in the eary 90's. The traditional karate guys were stunned because they believed that they could take out anyone from their years of training and here comes's this guy with four basic punches and a few kicks who devistates their champ.

**Toudiyama** · 03-27-2003, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Tom Yum
crazyjoe, you've done your homework. I think alot of things can be said of many arts - watching for instructors who never demonstrate etc. For closed hand strikes, I would rather use boxing. The right cross is more powerful than the reverse punch and recovers faster. When I first started boxing, my coach could tell that I was formerly TKD/karate based. The right cross explodes and once it penetrates its target its brought back to your cheek in a quick yet relaxed fashion. The reverse punch, comes out with a lot of power, with the other hand pulled to the waist for additional power, but leaves your entire left side exposed. THis is bad if someone hits you at the same time. The open hand strikes of karate seem to be good for striking vital areas.

I agree with the last post that says karate weighs heavily on power rather than speed/fluidity. Joe Lewis (the kickboxer) fought a traditional karate guy in the 70's and used boxing tactics, with karate kicks to knock the karate guy out. This match had the same effect on traditional martial arts at that time as Royce Gracie had in the eary 90's. The traditional karate guys were stunned because they believed that they could take out anyone from their years of training and here comes's this guy with four basic punches and a few kicks who devistates their champ.

As I stated before the retracting of the other arm to the hip should only be done in basics the power it is suppose to generate is actually generated by the hips, when you advance in the art, you don't need the retracting arm to be able to use your hips properly

I even consider it a nono to swing one arm (arm on kickingside)
to the back during a roundhouse kick which a lot of martial artist tend to do
As far as power goes, Wado, the style I do only uses power the last moment of the techniques so for the reverse punch that is a few inches from the target( we also turn our fist at the last moment)
the most famous technique is a jablike punch combined with an evasion nagashi zuki
But Wado might not be representative because it was the first real Japanese style(Shotokan is okinawan style that was japanized) and the first to combine japanese ju jitsu and okinawan karate
therefore we also have grabling and takedowns

**Tom Yum** · 03-27-2003, 10:34 AM

Good that you pointed out that power comes from the hips (leg extension, hip rotation). Too often I have seen karateka throw the punch as if they are performing a one arm bench press. Their punch has some snap from tricep extension and rotation of the fist, but they generally practice the punch from either a static horse stance or a deep lunge stance which prohibits hip power.

Glad that you also mentioned to keep hands up while throwing the roundhouse kick.

**Toudiyama** · 03-27-2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Tom Yum
Good that you pointed out that power comes from the hips (leg extension, hip rotation). Too often I have seen karateka throw the punch as if they are performing a one arm bench press. Their punch has some snap from tricep extension and rotation of the fist, but they generally practice the punch from either a static horse stance or a deep lunge stance which prohibits hip power.

Glad that you also mentioned to keep hands up while throwing the roundhouse kick.

Wado startrs out doing basics in motion as opposed to a lot of styles doing it from horsestance
Wados zenkutudachi( we step out with left foot and punch and call that hidari gamae) is much higher up than the other main styles(shotokan, goju en shito) because of that it is easier to use the hips properly
Strange thing is that a style like Shotokan that uses about the deepest lunge stance/zenkutsu dachi say that using the hip is important but from this stance it is impossible to use the hip efficently on top of that they use the same stance to kick, if you see them doing a roundhouse you see a body being bended and abody they goes up and down again
Because Shotokan has the largest following around the world, people think it is representative of karate but it isn't
It is actually the least practical style I've seen, great forms though
(judges score good on the deep rooted stances and the heavy breathing

**Great Sage** · 03-27-2003, 12:51 PM

Karate like any martial art has it's postives and negatives. Some karate styles are practical while others are not.

Shotokan Karate was among the deadliest of karate styles when it first surfaced. It employed the idea of "one strike, one kill." However, as of late, shotokan hasn't been able to hold its ground against very many martial arts. Today, one strike that doesn't kill can mean you're gonna get killed.

In regards to punching and blocking, karate is not that practical. As a one time Karate practitioner, I noticed that karate strikes and blocks are over-committed. Thus, karate is susceptible to feints and quick jabs, double jabs, fake kicks.

I prefer the principles of boxing when it comes to hand techniques. Less blocking and more moving and punching. Karate punching power, more often than none, comes from the twisting of the waist, not necessarily the hips. In boxing, the hips provide the power, but it's also the drive from your feet. Furthermore, the punch lands before the feet touches the ground when advancing, so that the power is behind the punch, not on the ground.

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I've been doing research on KARATE... lots of reading. only serious heads may enter.

I've been doing research on KARATE... lots of reading. only serious heads may enter.

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