MT:15th Dan

[Knowledge Bot]

15th Dan By Albertus - 02-11-2008 04:32 AM

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I am following this rank obsession within the Bujinkan for some time now and I am wondering where this will lead to. Can anybody tell me what the purpose is of all these 15th Dan’s (see my list below) that are growing like rabbits in the Bujinkan. I alone counted 58 of them and I am sure that I am not complete. You can hardly call it special anymore to be a 15th Dan, it must be very frustrating nowadays to be "only" a 10th Dan (something only the very very best could achieve in the good old days). And what is there to strive for when you are a 15th Dan, at often such a young age? It is starting to become a joke to even have a rank in the Bujinkan. Can someone give me a decent comment on this, thanks.
And if someone can add more names to this list, please feel free to do so, just to be as complete as possible.

15th Dan Bujinkan :
Joseph Adriance - U.S.A.
Michael Asuncion - U.S.A.
Ernani Pinto Bastos - Portugal
SvenEric Bogsäter - Holland / Sweden
José Manuel Collado Valencia - Spain
José María Conejo - Spain
Arnaud Cousergue - France
Richard J. Van Donk - U.S.A.
Brian Duckers - U.K.
Jesús Equía - Spain
Robert Erhardt - Germany
Carlos Etchegaray - Argentina
Pedro Fleitas González - Spain
T(h)omas Franzén - Sweden
Robert Fraser - Japan
Steffen G. Fröhlich - Germany
Yost Fulton - U.S.A.
Sheila Haddad - U.S.A. / Germany (even a woman!)
Daniel Hernández - Brasil / Argentina
Jack E. Hoban - U.S.A.
Darren Horvarth - Autralia
Robert F. Johnson - U.S.A.
Peter King - U.K.
Phillip Legare - U.S.A.
Ed Lomax - Australia / New Zealand
Diego López García - Spain
Carey D. "Bud" Malmstrom - U.S.A.
Ed(ward) H. Martin - U.S.A.
Kevin Millis - U.S.A.
Carlos Morales Páez - Spain
Brin(ley) Morgan - U.K.
Natasha Tomarkin Morgan - U.K. (wow another woman!)
Hiroshi Nagase - Japan
Toshiro Nagato - Japan
Keiji Nakadai - Japan
Moti Nativ - Israël
Yukio Noguchi - Japan
Koichi (Kohi) Oguri - Japan
Kim Oliveras - Spain
Craig Olson - Japan
Guillermo Lugo Pérez - Spain
Lubos Pokorny - Czech Republik
Keith Porter - U.K.
Jeff(rey) Prather - U.S.A.
Paco (Francisco) Rolán Belmonte - Spain
Enzo Rossi - Italy
Dean Rostohar - Croatia
Dale Seago - U.S.A.
Hideo Seno - Japan
Juan Manuel Serrano - Spain
Dick Severance - U.S.A.
Isamu Shiraishi - Japan
Norman Smithers - U.K.
Nikolaos Stefanidis - Germany
Larry Turner - U.S.A.
Mariëtte van der Vliet - Holland (and a third woman!)
Danny Waxman - Israël
Doug Wilson - Japan



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[RAB]

Rank given by an organization is the organizations choice. Some people create there own organization, make themselves the founder, and give themselves the highest rank among that system.

This is a case of more is better, over less is best. Contemporary vs. tradition. External reward vs. inner reward.

[leeman17]

The five dan grades after tenth dan are actually seen as more like stages of the tenth dan, they are just reffered to as 11th 12th 13th ect for convenience. What you are saying is understandable it does look like there is some major rank hunting and with some people in the bujinkan (who shall remain nameless) this is true. But there are many who have earnt this rank and live up to it as anyone would expect them to. The reason for this is that if you go to Japan and train under Hatsumi and want him to tell you how great you are and what rank you should be, he will do that but it doesnt make you that grade, i dont think soke has any time for people like that. In the Bujinkan even when you reach a grade like 15th Dan that is'nt the end, they are all still learning otherwise they proberbly would'nt do it anymore. Also i dont understand why you made a big thing about women being 15th Dans as the Bujinkan arts are all about effective natural movements of the human body and not about strength or size at all so there is no reason at all why they can not be as skilled.

[RAB]

being 15th Dans as the Bujinkan arts are all about effective natural movements of the human body and not about strength or size at all so there is no reason at all why they can not be as skilled.

Rank is an honorary title. It doesn't imply skill. If it did, how is it quantified?