What is exactly ninjitsu???

[franceschino]

Hi everyone
I am interested in martial arts, and I would like to begin this month one of them. Right now I am very interested in ninjitsu and kung fu, but I don't really know what ninjitsu is. Is it the ninja art??? What do you learn??? Do you learn animal styles like in kung fu??? What do you think is better??? I am looking for something spiritual, acrobatic and that enables me to use sticks, etc... and if possible learn animal styles (not essential).
Please could you help, i know that probably is a stupid question, but I really don't know what to do.
Thank you very much

Francesco

P.S. sorry about my english but I'm italian

[Metsunami]

...

exactally ninjitsu is the art of ninjas you learn things like
How to hide in MANY different ways like in plain site (wood technique) near fire (fire technique), in a tree (earth technique) under water (water technique)...basically it was originated for assasination you can expect a lot of stealth-like moves, but the ones that aren't stealth are still lethal.

[RobertG]

Re: ...

Originally posted by Metsunami
exactally ninjitsu is the art of ninjas you learn things like
How to hide in MANY different ways like in plain site (wood technique) near fire (fire technique), in a tree (earth technique) under water (water technique)...basically it was originated for assasination you can expect a lot of stealth-like moves, but the ones that aren't stealth are still lethal.

Do we even need to go here AGAIN?

Just for Lizard...

Facts:
1.    Ninjas are mammals.
2.    Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3.    The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Ninjas can kill anyone they want!  Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it.  These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time.  I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner.  And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town.  My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

[vipxtrmn8r]

Ninjas are just so SWEET!

They'll cut your head off for no reason!

i love that website.

[Metsunami]

...?

ok you two know what appears to be NOTHING ABOUT NINJITSU unless you were just messing around maybe you should go to forums that have to do with people that have no idea about what they're talking about you don't HAVE to be absolutley INSANE to be a ninja...ninjitsu is a stealth art a comlpete psyco art whoever started this stereotype should go back into the womb of thier mother and start life over again but leave the rookies alone

[RobertG]

Ok for the Nth time---there is no ninjitsu. Get it through your heads people, it is a fabrication of storytellers during the Tokugawa era in Japan for mass entertainment. There is no mention of ninja's prior to this in Japan. Ninja Ryu's date all the way back to, ummm, right after WWII when some Japanese got the bright idea of selling American's this Japanese folklore wrapped up in black pajamas (just like the Lee brothers got the bright idea of repackaging Hapkido with some weapons, psychic powers, Easter medicine and hiding in the woods as Hwarang Do).

First off, a bushi would have done whatever it is that ninja's are supposed to do. That is, some daimyo isn't going to employ some dude who lives in the mountains and wears black pajamas to sneak around the enemy camp. He's going to send one of his better samurai to do it. Not surprisingly we find "ninjitsu" elements in the authentic Bujitsu schools in Japan (Katori Shinto Ryu for instance). Espionage and assasination were not separate from the arts the bushi practiced. Secondly, ninjitsu, like the traditional Japanese Bujitsu, would be a weapons art. Ninja, if they existed, would have to fight samurai, who were always armed with multiple weapons. The elaboration of unarmed arts in Japan occurred during the Tokugawa (peacetime) period, not during the period of warfare that preceeded it. According to the fictional accounts the ninja were destroyed by then anyway. So unarmed ninja techniques are totally bogus. If there were an authentic ninjitsu it'd look more like Kali than bad karate/judo (which it resembles now). Thirdly, the guys that lived in the mountains and fought the samurai back in the day were known as the yamabushi ("mountain warriors", though some, paradoxically, lived in monasteries on the plains). This is where the ninja mythology comes from. Yamabushi were basically like Shaolin monks--e.g. Buddhists who sat around training to fight all day long. They actually did fight the samurai on a regular basis. They were, however, eventually crushed. To my knowledge, no yamabushi ryu have been passed down to the present. Again, these would have been ARMED arts (you go ahead and try to wrestle a guy in armor with 2 swords, a few daggers, and a spear...right). They didn't run around in black pajamas. If they conducted covert type ops, it was not the focus of their studies. There isn't any big secret to being stealthy. You run around at night and don't make a lot of noise.

Anyway, the fact is, no serious historian of the Japanese martial arts has been able to find a shred of evidence there were any real ninjas or ninjitsu schools. Oh, but they must have burned all the evidence of their existence. Nope. There were guys employed by warlords in Japan and guys employed by monasteries. They used the same weapons pretty much and fought in pretty much the same ways. There was no secret society of mystical assassins in Japan or Korea or anywhere else. Never happened. So give it up.

Beyond the mere historical facts, there is this to consider as well---ninjitsu is totally untested. By this I mean that even granting it historical legitimacy, it, like all the other Japanese arts, would have de-evolved as it were during the Tokugawa period. Since no one fought for real anymore, the arts became antiquated. Kano discovered this with Jujitsu (and the Gracie's did separately across the ocean). The old Jujitsu styles (developed largely during peacetime and removed from combat for hundreds of years) contained many techniques that wouldn't work against real, resisting opponents. Well, obviously ninjitsu, having never gone through the testing phase that Judo, BJJ and others have gone through, is largely devoid of real world applicability. It hasn't come fresh from the field like Kali or some Silat styles. Even if there were ninjas, no one has used ninjitsu to kill anyone for about 500 years. Kali was probably used to kill someone today, and will be again tomorrow. Its a living art still used in real combat. Ninjitsu isn't.

Beyond all that, all I have to say is that Ninjas are so sweet they make me want to crap my pants.

[Thai Bri]

I love them with every inch of my body. Including my pee pee.

[T3rr0r_]

what is this kinda madness
thats not true that ninjas only cut of heads
there just stealth fighters

[Metsunami]

Wow Robert you are amazingly ignorant considering you said basically the same thing about six times in your post to make it longer ninjitsu isn't real even though it probably isn't what you said each time i got the picture...I happen to know people "trained" in ninjitsu...i am curious where you get your information from because i have read about the history of ninjitsu and various other martial arts and they contradic you actual authors that know a lot more about it than you would probably want to even considering how much you say you "Love" ninjas but it is pointless to argue with someone who won't listen so farwell

[hoplite]

Ninjas & Kung Fu

Francesco,

Looking for a place to start? Common ideas running through your posts are spirituality, animals, acrobatics, and weapons. The only places to have successfully combined these four are movies, comic books, and cheap paperbacks.

A better start would be to examine your reasons and goals for training in a martial art. Once you develop a clear statement of your reasons and goals, begin interviewing the instructors in your area and study with one that will best help you meet your goals. However, as you gain more experience, your reasons and goals will change, and where or what you study may also need to be changed.

Be cautious if a style or instructor claims spirituality is important to their martial art. Often they have compromised both their spirituality and martial ability.

You can begin to prepare yourself now by starting a regular habit of stretching, calisthenics, and jogging, regardless of the style you finally select.

[grubbogoppoly]

"Be cautious if a style or instructor claims spirituality is important to their martial art. Often they have compromised both their spirituality and martial ability. "
Please explain this quote. I really just want to understand your line of thinking. Do you think that a martial art can not include "spirituality"?

[grubbogoppoly]

Just an addition. I lost all respect for robert a long time ago. He claims to know all about ninjutsu and Hwa rang do. Funny how he associated tang soo do with hwa rang do because Tae soo do is the only art associated directly with hwa rang do.

[Thai Bri]

A long time ago?

You've only been here a few days, ya bull shitter!

[RobertG]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
Just an addition. I lost all respect for robert a long time ago. He claims to know all about ninjutsu and Hwa rang do. Funny how he associated tang soo do with hwa rang do because Tae soo do is the only art associated directly with hwa rang do.

Oh gee, someone who practices an imaginary martial art has lost respect for me.

Douchebag I associated Tang Soo Do with Hwarang Do because they were both brought up as options in the thread together. That is, someone told that kid in L.A. that instead of training with Dan Inosanto he ought to do Tang So Do or Hwarang Do. I know they are not the same thing. Tang So Do comes directly from Japanese Karate. If memory serves me I believe it shares many forms with Shotokan. Hwarang Do is doctored up Hapkido, which they more or less admit to on their website (you know the bit where they say they originally called their art Hapkido--gee, maybe because it was?).

Once again, Hwarang Do was invented by the Lee brothers. Period. There is zero historical evidence indicating that the Hwarang as an institution survived until modern day Korea. As an instuition, in fact, I believe the Hwarang ended about 600 AD or thereabouts. The Hwarang were young men who were groomed for government positions. As this time Korea was very much influenced by China and Chinese forms of government. In order to prepare men for roles in government they went through rigorous education in the Chinese classics, Confucianism, some Taoism and Buddhism, archery and swordsmanship (but primarily archery). They didn't learn unarmed martial arts. Look it up. Since the Hwarang was really just an academy of sorts, men left once they were of age to get government jobs. That is, they were not warriors--though some men trained in the institution of the Hwarang might have gone on to become warriors. As an institution it was no overtly martial. To claim a distinctly Confucian institution as the basis of your martial art is totally absurd. I mean I know the Lee brothers read too many Remo Williams books growing up and wanted to be Sinanju masters just like Chun. But sorry, that is fantasy land. Hwarang Do, like nearly all contemporary Korean martial arts, is largely Karate based with some elements of Kung Fu added. It is not 2000 years old, it doesn't actually trace any history back to the heydey of classical Korea. Get over it and yourself. And while you're at it try reading up on Korean history, specifically martial history.

That said, its no big deal if people practice made up martial arts. I do. JKD is a recent invention, about 4 decades old now. Does that make it any less effective because of it modernity? No, its probably more effective. Arts that have been "preserved" are likely to have lost touch with reality over hundreds of years. But you didn't see Bruce trying to dress up JKD in Chinese mythology and poorly interpreted Chinese history. No, he said he made it up. I'd have more respect for Hwarang Do if they'd just admit that they invented it. They didn't train in some version of the Shaolin temple in the Korean mountains, and like Cain, come down the moutain and across the see to teach the secrets of Eastern wisdom to the white man. Nope. The saw that Bond movie with the ninjas, saw how Americans eat up crap like that, and then they decided to dress up hapkido with black pajamas and make money off the Americans. Hey, I admire their enterprising spirit. But its bogus and lets just admit that.

PS I never lost respect for you because I never had any to begin with.

[jules]

dang rob.