Wing Chun + Boxing = Jeet Kune Do ?

[Panagiotis97]

i am not talking about the philosophy, just the moves and the techniques...

i have read that Jeet Kune Do is a mix of Wing Chun, boxing, fencing...

how can you mix wing chun with boxing? they are contrevarcy...

[Drew Howe]

Re: Wing Chun + Boxing = Jeet Kune Do ?

Originally posted by Panagiotis97
i am not talking about the philosophy, just the moves and the techniques...

i have read that Jeet Kune Do is a mix of Wing Chun, boxing, fencing...

how can you mix wing chun with boxing? they are contrevarcy...

I'm not sure what "contrevarcy" means. However, western boxing is the primary hand techniques in original JKD. The jab, cross, hook, and a snapping style lead hand backfist. The wing chun mix comes in for trapping skills. I can tell you from experience that in a full contact mode the trapping is no where near as complex as wing chun trapping.

The main trap that can be pulled off with some regularity is the arm pin at the elbow. Basically it is just a pin with your hand against the elbow of the bad guy to provide an opening. You might be able to disengage that and get a lop sao (grabbing hand) off the other hand if your punch is blocked. I've not seen much of any real trapping in sparring though..even in the tapes from the big guys.

I know little of this makes much since. One of the better JKD trapping guys is Paul Vunak. I'd recommend you get your hands on one of his tapes if you'd like to see how it's done. However, in real full on sparring, it doesn't look like it does in the drills.

[ryanhall]

That's because trapping doesn't work under real resistance.

[Drew Howe]

Originally posted by ryanhall
That's because trapping doesn't work under real resistance.

Sorry, I guess that would have been the easiest way to put it. I'm suffering from too many words syndrome tonight.

[Maxetai]

Bruce's JKD had a lot of Savate influence-especially in the kicking department- which very few people mention.

Remember that JKD can be anything. As a "style" it doesn't really exist. It's really your personal expression of fighting.

[jules]

plz explain...

[Thai Bri]

He means that some JKD people teach you how to do it their way but, when MMA people prove themselevs, they can still claim ti to be JKD.......

JKD is a great concept. A great way to train. But the charlatans get everywhere.

[Panagiotis97]

their principles seem to be against each other

in wing chun you bend the kness and your feet are well on the floor and you move only when you are attacked, in boxing you are on the toes and you are moving all the time

in wing chun you keep your body facing the opponent in a parrallel way, in boxing you try to "hide" your body as much as you can so that you dont give a target

in wing chun the punches are very different than the boxing punches


could you use boxing punches after a tan sau?!
if you can why dont we use them instead of these strange wing chun punches?

could you take a boxing stance and be moving like a boxer?

can the wing chun techniques be used in a boxing match?

[Thai Bri]

The gloves play a big part in keeping the systems apart. Without them it would be easier to merge, to an extent.

Of course you can use any WC block, and then smack the other guy with a right cross. Why not?

As regards stances, merging merely means finding the best of both. I would imagine that the WC stance would be totally swallowed up by the far more flexible boxers'

But I don't think you can apply much WC with 8 ounce gloves on.

[Drew Howe]

Western boxing, like you see today, almost always ends up in a clinch. While this is often considered grappling range, you will see that many boxers will attempt to immobilize the other boxers arms. Tyson often did this, and would launch short but powerful strikes inside a clinch. This is trapping, just not what some would consider trapping to be.

The obvious reason you don't see this for any prolonged period in a match is because the ref always steps in and pulls the boxers apart.

[swan104]

This is the bit I am always unsure about. So is standing grappling also trapping?

[ap Oweyn]

Originally posted by Panagiotis97
in wing chun you bend the kness and your feet are well on the floor and you move only when you are attacked, in boxing you are on the toes and you are moving all the time

Most boxers aren't on the balls of their feet all the time. They maintain a high level of mobility. But often, I see the lead foot flat on the floor and the rear ball of the foot on the floor.

Being on the balls of both feet is more indicative of kickboxing, to my mind. From there, you can drop into a deeper stance for punching or launch kicks without rising up first. A boxer doesn't kick obviously, so there's less cause to be that high in their stance. (Especially given that he'd have to drop his weight again in order to effectively bob and weave.)

in wing chun you keep your body facing the opponent in a parrallel way, in boxing you try to "hide" your body as much as you can so that you dont give a target

Again, not in my experience of boxing. "As much as you can" would be like fencing or sport karate. Completely side on, so that you constitute as small a target as possible. Boxers tend to square up a lot more than that, so they can bring their cross to bear on the target more easily.


Stuart B.

[Thai Bri]

Depends who you talk to Steven. To me, "Trapping" means all that Wing Chum pattacake stuff. But other people use the word differently.

But I don't think this kind of trapping has any use. For this range, Shred.

[swagman]

We train

with JKD philosophies in mind and the most obvious blending of Wing Chun and boxing is when you are in transition between ranges. We use predominantly Muay Thai techniques in the kicking and boxing ranges and also in moving into the clinch, however using slapping hand to trap the lead elbow and get inside or around the guard can also be very effective, but less so with gloves on. It is very important though that the technique is not done in the pattacake fashion that Bri so hates, it should be done with full force and can only be done if your opponents guard is too cramped.
Its not something you would use all the time, but its something that should be in your armoury.
Having a range of techniques for different ranges and situations is important, and just because a technique wont work in all situations, doesnt make it useless.
i know that boxing and WC can be used well together, its just a matter of finding out what works for you, and to find that out, you must learn it properly first.

regards

[bartjam]

well, if you want to see some boxing/wc "mixture", have a look to Dan Inosanto's trapping tape (you'll also see some kickboxing/wc stuff in other Dan's works).
Actually, if you succeed in trapping, then you can finish your opponent like you want... headbutts, knees, elbows or boxing hooks/uppercuts etc. etc.
Also, you can start with boxing combinations to enter a "straight blast", but then forget WC typical stances...
As for "patta cake"... I think in a street confrontation you should try to have a great pre-emptive arsenal, a good timing and a quick possession of the centre-line. If the way is "closed", then you can pak/lop/kao sau your opponent to enter new attacks. That's not exactly patta cake ...