JKD Fighting?

[Uber_Tap]

I read this site and see threads about JKD trapping, JKD punching, and JKD grappling. Is there any means to an end in this system, or is there even a system? JKD sounds like MMA without the commitment. What type of fighting/sparring do you guys actually do? Is there any particular goal within the system, meaning do you lean towards stand up fighting, ground fighting, or what? It doesn't seem to have a foundation in anything.

I've never really researched the style, other than what I've seen in the magazines so I'm really just trying to understand what it's all about, not trying to piss the Bruce loyalists off or anything.

[gungfuhero]

JKD is about being adaptable. Different JKD fighters favor different tactics and strategies. Most of the JKD basics are geared toward stand-up fighting, but research in other areas is encouraged and many experiment with BJJ or Shoot wrestling among other areas for ground work and Filipino Martial Arts for edged and impact weapons. There really isn't any end to the system, only a sophisticated beginning and the room to adapt.

[scorpio]

J.k.d. ?

Read the tao of jeet kune do, that will give you insight into the philosophy behind jeet kune do. J.K.D. is not an art, but can be applied to an art.

regards scorpio.

[bvermillion]

Jeet Kune Do is very simple concept that people have taken way to far. JKD is very simply rejecting what is useless and accepting what is not. It doesn't matter what style you train if something of and in that style is useless reject it if you see a technique or training method in another style that you find useful accept it adapt it and make it your own.

[gungfuhero]

JKD is both an art and a philosophy. It is not simply being eclectic. There are principles that form the strategic elements and basic foundation of Jeet Kune Do. Jeet Kune Do is the way of no way, but it has a particular starting place.

[bvermillion]

JKD is both an art and a philosophy. It is not simply being eclectic. There are principles that form the strategic elements and basic foundation of Jeet Kune Do. Jeet Kune Do is the way of no way, but it has a particular starting place.

I have to disagree I think people who trained with Bruce Lee wanted to continue on so they called what he taught them JKD. But in all honesty if it is admitted that Bruce constantly changed what he taught then how can any set of moves be JKD. Who is to say that Bruce wasn't gonna do away with this technique or that technique. Jeet Kune Do is more a concept then anything. Bruce just accepted what was useful and rejected what was different. If Bruce would have trained in judo and karate instead of what he did then his style of fighting would have been totally different. But since he trained in wing chun his techniques mirror that of wing chun. If he would have done Taekwondo his moves would mirror that of TKD. He rejected what he was taught that was useless. He accepted that of which he was taught that was useful. If he would have been taught different styles he would have accepted that which was usefull out of that style and rejected what wasn't.

[akja]

in regards to concept and art

I have to disagree I think people who trained with Bruce Lee wanted to continue on so they called what he taught them JKD. But in all honesty if it is admitted that Bruce constantly changed what he taught then how can any set of moves be JKD. Who is to say that Bruce wasn't gonna do away with this technique or that technique. Jeet Kune Do is more a concept then anything. Bruce just accepted what was useful and rejected what was different. If Bruce would have trained in judo and karate instead of what he did then his style of fighting would have been totally different. But since he trained in wing chun his techniques mirror that of wing chun. If he would have done Taekwondo his moves would mirror that of TKD. He rejected what he was taught that was useless. He accepted that of which he was taught that was useful. If he would have been taught different styles he would have accepted that which was usefull out of that style and rejected what wasn't.

Heres what someone under the Inosanto scholl posted on another site.

Although you rae applying concepts of JKD to your personal training, JKD does still have a set core group of techniques that are central to JKD. Bruce Lee still did have his techniques that he taught for specific reasons. Yes, there were no students that could pull it off as he did but they atill remain a staple of JKD. ALSO to legitimately claim "JKD Instruction" they had to come from a certified JKD Instructor. This person had to be trained in "JKD" and as such his student Instructors should be teaching that same cirriculum. Although they will add their own spin to it.
I also think that this is exactly what happens in all arts. Tae Kwon Do today does not look like it did in 1962. We cannot duplicate without effect of our personal interpretation and attributes.
For example....We teach a technique that is not our strong suite so maybe we teach it poorly from there we have students performing this technique poorly. THEN some other Instructor comes along and corrects it and bam the whole technique and its application has changed.

JKD is more than an amalgam of techniques and concepts. You cannot simply train in other styles and call it JKD.
I also think..........and this is the hard part...........that Bruce Lee expressed his wishes clearly however what he DID do was create a style. Like it or not. this IS what he did and people embraced it. If you are taking from elements that are not a part of JKD core, AND your core does not include this JKD training....then you are simply creating your own system and should take some ownership of that.

Example .....You are self trained in several arts and you are sparring.......You hold your hands poorly and try to initiate from a set stance. Needless to say you are gettingg killed. so after one hit in the face, your hands come up. Is this person doing JKD ?
NO...he's just getting lite up and is trying to adapt......Now he goes back to training and he throws punches from a better hand placement but he is just involved in a "slug fest". He is hitting more and his style so to speak has changed...is he JKD ? NO he is just experimenting.
Then while sparring he begins to see openings and starts to hit just before the completion arc of an attack.....is he doing JKD ? Spomeone watching might say "oh hey, single direct attack or attack by interception" But he is not doing JKD. He just borrowed a concept avalible to everyone.
Needless to say, he is getting better because he is sparring more. NOW he meets a JKD Instructor and he is introduced to concepts, methods, techniques, trapping low line attacks and trains for better attributes. He NOW looks nothing like he did when he was sparring before, Is he JKD ? Now he can be if he chooses to be. He had to have this core. Otherwise he is reinventing the wheel (and not very well mind you) and just flailing around the hard way.
Hapkidio can look like Tae Kwon Do but it isn't. It employs the same type of kicks right down to it's instruction on executing them but yet it is not. JKD people should be able to adapt to anyone's fighting style and fight them in a way that minimizes their opponents use of their best tools. There are also techniques and teaching methods that are in direct conflict with JKD instruction. This point alone would prohibit someoen from training in the way you mentioned and calling it JKD.

[tekshow]

i like to think the contrary - JKD while it is admittedly a philosophy developed by Bruce, it does pull enough from different styles, what Bruce was promoting did have specific moves and set lists.

i think the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and the other books of Bruce elaborate on it quite a bit.

really it's a mix of jun fan, wing chun, tai chi, and chinese and western boxing. sure it can be applied to any art, but i think JKD wether it was intended initially or not has evolved into its own style.


there are definitely ranks to be had and if you find a good second generation teacher they can show you a lot of real JKD that stands out against other McDojo's who merely claim to know JKD.


Maestro Ted Lucay Lucay and Guro Dan Inasontos have both promoted systems that incorporate what has become what I consider the Core of JKD.


in our JKD classes it's typical that we do a lot of standup work. Starting at the Stick range, then open handed (for jun fan, panatukan, silat, and wing chun), then we might even go to the ground to work on some Dumag or Shooto...


but the majority (99%) i'd say comes from a system inherited through Guro Inasontos and Maestro Ted Lucay Lucay.


it just worries me to know end, no wonder people have no idea what JKD is. It's because you walk into these McDojo's and they don't even have a clue what they are teaching.


it's not that important, as long as their education is real and effective, but it just mucks up the water so to speak.


everyone with any sort of jujitsu, dumag, silat, bjj, or other indonesian arts has an arm bar in their system. they all name it differnently, but that doesn't mean its not an arm bar in the other system.



listen to Akja too, those were some good words. i should have read that insight before i posted this...


peace,
joe

[akja]

i like to think the contrary - JKD while it is admittedly a philosophy developed by Bruce, it does pull enough from different styles, what Bruce was promoting did have specific moves and set lists.

i think the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and the other books of Bruce elaborate on it quite a bit.

really it's a mix of jun fan, wing chun, tai chi, and chinese and western boxing. sure it can be applied to any art, but i think JKD wether it was intended initially or not has evolved into its own style.


there are definitely ranks to be had and if you find a good second generation teacher they can show you a lot of real JKD that stands out against other McDojo's who merely claim to know JKD.


Maestro Ted Lucay Lucay and Guro Dan Inasontos have both promoted systems that incorporate what has become what I consider the Core of JKD.


in our JKD classes it's typical that we do a lot of standup work. Starting at the Stick range, then open handed (for jun fan, panatukan, silat, and wing chun), then we might even go to the ground to work on some Dumag or Shooto...


but the majority (99%) i'd say comes from a system inherited through Guro Inasontos and Maestro Ted Lucay Lucay.


it just worries me to know end, no wonder people have no idea what JKD is. It's because you walk into these McDojo's and they don't even have a clue what they are teaching.


it's not that important, as long as their education is real and effective, but it just mucks up the water so to speak.


everyone with any sort of jujitsu, dumag, silat, bjj, or other indonesian arts has an arm bar in their system. they all name it differnently, but that doesn't mean its not an arm bar in the other system.



listen to Akja too, those were some good words. i should have read that insight before i posted this...


peace,
joe

Thanx, Bro!
But I can't take credit for someone elses words, although I do believe them.

[scorpio]

Jun fan jeet kune do is an art. Jeet kune do is not an art.

[akja]

Jun fan jeet kune do is an art. Jeet kune do is not an art.

The "term" Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do did not come about until the mid '90's.
Jun Fan Gung-Fu / Jeet Kune Do date back to the '60's.

[sercuerdas]

doesn't all this jkd stuff give you a head ache.

[akja]

doesn't all this jkd stuff give you a head ache.

Not really, It's actually funny.

[robertlee]

What bruce taught while he was alive Was JKD. Yes different phases of development occured. But it was still a set pattern of his training . And the training of the original students. Several people have different views to what is or is not JKD. Some think its mearly a concept. The concept was what Bruce was teaching. And that was called JKD. It has and had a set path of learning. When you add or take away . Its extended or made personal of use. But If JKD is to be around for many years to come. We should start at the base structure. The training and tools that Bruce used and taught. Then if you want mix your own personal set. But remember If you teach that set tell the people its an extended version of the orginal JKD. No one can be Bruce. And no one wants to. But a lot of people would like to be able to learn his art .Which Is Jeet Kune Do. Jun Fan came first Then in Oakland JKD began. every thing started to change. LA saw jkd grow But seattle and oakland took part in the growth as Bruce went both to Taki and James up dateing. There growth. They would teach and train in JKD. It has a core to its learning. And really concepts from other arts are made to fit in with . Not become JKD. Plus several people now think if you apply The idea of JKD behind say A mix of totaly different arts you are doing JKD. When really thay are just training say better in the base art . What ever it really is. But for years to come people will argue over a name. And never know the art at all. Go back 20 years and JKD was hard to find in most states except California. Now you can find it many places. People wanted to learn. And people still want that. Teach it as it should be taught. And add your personal touch and teach seperate. Not to confuse what is or is not. And JKD will be around along time. And you will still be able to do what you want.

[begins]

I have never actually taken JKD or plan to because truthfully I see it as more of a philosophy than an art or a "no way" way... however i have read the Tao of JKD and see alot of interesting aspect of it...i just feel that it was never completed and i wouldnt go to some "instructor" for such things

just wondering however, wasnt the principal of JKD to take what you are good at, the attributes one has, and let them adapt to a situation? to "fill the cup" so-to-speak?

like a kick coming from a unflexible individual is useless in many aspects...

im asking because i have sparred a few of these JKD practitioners only to find out its nothing really special...iono, maybe my hopes were high...

peace