Does Size Matter?

[Chad W. Getz]

I'll share an experience and sort of realization that I had tonight working out. There is a "technique" that I saw a vid clip on Roy Harris' web site of Roy breaking someones mount. I tried it out and worked on it, I like it, and everyone pretty much agrees that it is a good move. How could they disagree if I used it to do what I wanted to do. (And no statements about how one must not stand outside and observe rather to be BE the technique...take what I say at face value) Anyway, this technique was a really smooth move that took absolutely no strength, and purely strategy...I'm not sure if I could even say it involves much timing or sensitivity, it is really simple and works from proper position and technique.

On the Abu Dhabi 2000 tournament tape, you can see Rigan Machado breaking someones mount alot differently. His way used strength, took a little longer, and involved alot of timing and sensitivity, because he wanted to use his strength at the exact right time so that he wouldn't have to struggle much. I don't know how big Roy is, but from the vid clip, he didn't look to be that big, but a little more on the thin guy that Rigan. Rigan fights in the highest weight class and is close to my size and body type than Roy. Anyway, I've been working it for a little while here and the more I do it the better I get...I can work it in situation though, so again can't argue the effectiveness.

The saying goes...the guy with superior technique will do good. Well if the other guy is stronger and has equal technique, he will be better. Well than the weaker guy should develop better technique, etc., etc. I notice that there are some techniques that don't rely much on strength and there are some that require strength. It's just that if you try to use a strength road and the guy is stronger than you, you can always switch up to your "technical" techniques.

[Kevin]

Chad wrote:
>>There is a "technique" that I saw a vid clip on Roy Harris' web site of Roy breaking someones mount.<<

Can you describe this technique.... or point me to somewhere else for the info?

Thanks!
~Kev

[Chad W. Getz]

Well, it might have been one of the videos in the downloadable book. I swear one of these days I am going to take the time to sit down and watch some of the stuff. I have had extremely high success with this particular technique once I got it down. It is really easy to understand, and I'm sure most of you know that I hate giving emphasis to the "perfection of techniques", but like I stated, for some reason, it doesn't take much strength, sensitivity, or timing to pull it off, and it takes about a second or two to pull someone off of the mount and into the half guard. From there it is up to the person to know how to escape from that position.

Technique Description. I saw it on Roy's web site as a vid clip, and it is a move by move description that I will present it as. I hope I don't offend Roy or step on anyones toes here. I figure since it was in a free section of his web site and he appears to be very helpfull and giving with his knowledge, he won't mind. Roy, if you are reading this, or if any of his friends or students read it and it comes to anyones attention that this is not his wishes to be here presented like this, please e-mail me and I will edit the post as soon as I get it.
chad@fullcontacthi.com .

Description
Your opponent has just passed your guard and is in a lower based mount. This is about the only time it will take your timing attribute.

1. Hold him in this lower mount. The vid clip shows the guy laying on Roy for position.

2. Turn to your side (I prefer to turn to my left so that I can use my right foot later on, but be sure to train both...I will describe it as you turn to your left for this description) and scoot away from him a little while pushing with your left hand on his right knee.

3. You should be laying on your left side by now and have him pretty low on you. Take your right foot and step over his right leg. His right leg should now be between your left leg and your right foot, which is crossed over and stepping over his leg.

4. Use your right foot heel to push his leg tight against your left leg, and hook your heel under his foot to bring his foot hooking right over and pass your left leg/shin.

5. Don't move anything now. If you have done everything correct up to this point, his lower base on his right side should consist of him on his knee on the outside of your thigh with his leg going down but over your leg and trapped between your shin and foot/heel.

6. This has all been the set up, the actual principal of the technique is that of a see-saw or a prying effect. If you push down with your heel on his foot, his knee should lift, because of the "coyote dropping a rock on the board to catapult himself up to the cliff effect". Once his knee lifts you are out of the guard "principly" because his base is no longer on the outside of your body. The next step is for you to just bring your leg out from under him though the space you just created. Of course pushing his knee while you do it just helps the move to be more efficient. Train it though, try it slow with a friend, than try rolling with someone, let him pass your guard to mount and then try it. It is a really good feeling when you get to pull stuff off against someone who doesn't know what you were doing.

From there you need to decide where your strong points are whether you put him back into your full guard or, toe in half guard, or try to roll him.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an "experienced" grappler, and am still working alot on my groundfighting skills. The above technique was seen on a vid clip at Roy Harris' web site and it is best if you see it for yourself, I'll try and find out exactly where I saw it and post it. Everything else the way I described it and various analogies are just my opinions and some ideas based on my own perception and experiences. Don't hold Roy responsible for anything that I say, but if it works out good for you or you agree, than thank him.

[Chad W. Getz]

Just so there is no misunderstanding, it still takes proper sensitivity and timing to hold steady position, my post was not meant to insinuate that a person with no timing and sensitivity can get on the ground and pull this off against an aggressive opponent. But train it and find the weak and strong points. If you do it correctly, you will know and the leg will practically open up for you like an oyster opening up. Literally, the actual techniqe only requires proper mechanic, nothing else, besides positioning and all the things that it already takes to be a positional grappler. Hope that helps.

[Chad W. Getz]

One more thing...there is a way to use this principle to get the guy from the half guard that you just put him in, and put him into your full guard. Play with it though and see if you can make it. This is a little harder than the original technique of breaking his mount.

[HungryWolf21]

There is a good article concerning this subject on Burton Richardson's website.

http://www.jkdunlimited.com

[Chad W. Getz]

Found the technique picture sequence. The main part of the tech is picteres 3, 4, and 5.

http://www.royharris.com/tech100799.html

Hope it helps. Quietanswer, how wre the Roy Harris tapes?

[Dion]

A question... Yep again... hehehe

Quote.. ""It's just that if you try to use a strength road and the guy is stronger than you, you can always switch up to your "technical" techniques.""

I must ask here, why use one or the other ?

Why not combine both into the one so that there is no switching required, "technique" combined with "strength" and using the grace of "fluidity" to keep both in balance. Would it not hold logically true that this would mean that no matter what "road" they attempt to get to you along, you will have one foot on both at the same time to ensure neither is unexpected ?

Also is it switching up or switching down to "technique", is your strength really required or can you utilize the strength energy they are providing for you and if so then would it not also hold true that you can then use "their" technique against them in the same manner ?

*like the leaf falling to the ground, its strength pulls it toward the ground as quickly as possible and yet its technique of catching the wind aids it in slowing its fall...*

Freedom Ultimate... !



*..when one merely wishes to reinforce some "form" or "styles" meaning then the "way" it is placed into words is irrelivent as long as the meaning gets across...*

[Leif]

Everything Matters!

Hey guys! I'm brand new to this forum so forgive me if I step on any toes! Size does matter! Anyone who tells you otherwise is wearing blinders. I'd rather be punched by Royce Gracie than Paul Varlans! (the ground-game would be another matter!) In a fight every little thing is critical. The location, weapons, number of attackers, your level of "sobriety", training, experience, and yes, size! There ARE ways to equalize these things. Your opponent may be 6 foot five and 280 lbs, but how strong are his nuts? How much weight-training does he do with his eyeballs? These things do not change, regardless of size or strength. A smaller fighter doesn't need strength to injure these things, only speed and craftiness. Attributes are the key. I'm only 5-2, and 140 on a good day (soaking wet), but I constantly train and fight with these "monsters", and yes, they hit hard, and they are heavy on the ground, but If you are the sneakier and nastier fighter, you will do o.k. P.S. I don't mean to sound cocky, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you! Peace brothers! -Leif.

[Edited by Leif on 01-31-2001 at 11:26 PM]

[Chad W. Getz]

Leif, glad to have you aboard...

If we say that size matters, than it does...but we would also have to say that technique matters as well. I'm interpreting that size matters with the correct training/body mechanics. I think I agree with this. So do you guys think one is more important than the other?

I weigh about 220 lbs at 6'0", and I like being at this weight. I don't know how many times I can mount a guy and than just smother his face with my chest/ stomach.

I also know that my size does not make me invincible when rolling, as I have had 165 lb. guys sweep and/or turn me over rather easily.

I don't, unfortunately, get the chance to roll around with someone my size or heavier, though, although I do get to roll with someone much stronger than me, and I find that being the time when I learn the most about what I need to do.

[Tory]

I don't know about everyone else on here. But, when I go up against someone larger than I, I usually think "Oh SHIT" "What am I gonna have to do to hurt him or keep him away from me" Not "Oh Shit" "This guy is huge, ima get my ass kicked here in a second"
Example: I was up against a class mate of mine in Po-Po academy who is 5'10 250lbs, experinced fighter and Jailer for a local sheriffs office. I am 5'7 178 lbs, not much experience at all, just natural instinct. He put me in a bear-hug from behind, I worked the pressure points on the back of his hands and he threw me to the ground. I kicked his pereneal (sp?) nerve, dropped him to the ground, jumped on his back, and proceeded to choke him out after I locked my legs around him and forced him to tap out. I got lucky that time, mind you my classmate is extremely quick. I just caught him off-guard is all.

Basically, if you are smaller than your oppenent, use it to your advantage.

If they know what they are doing, size defenitely can play a key part in the outcome. IMO its the size of the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog in the fight. I know its kinda cliche, but many times it is true. Just my opinion.

[BlackMaskX]

Size matters . . . depends on the type of fight

This discussion has had some good, thoughtful posts.

First of all, let me say that my experience in fighting is very limited, as I try to avoid fighting. But, from what I have seen, size is an important factor in a fight, though certainly not the absolute deciding factor. To say that size doesn't matter, I think, is foolish. However, I think that *how much* size matters depends largely on the type of fight.

In a striking fight, for example, I think size matters a lot. In fights between trained martial artists, where the opponents tend to fight more defensively and move around, and rely more on speed and strategy, the smaller guy sometimes wins, although he is at a disadvantage if the bigger guy has comparable skill. However, when striking fights degenerate into toe-to-toe slugging matches, as they seem to do in real life, the bigger guy almost always seems to win because the fighters throw technique and strategy out the window and rely on brute force. Although well-trained small people may be able to hit harder than untrained big people, larger people still seem to be able to absorb more punishment.

In grappling/throwing matches, whether on the ground or stand-up, size seems to matter less but is still an important factor. Many grappling techniques focus on redirecting force, relying on technique and speed rather than brute force. But, unless the grappler is really good, there seems to be a limit to the amount of force you can redirect. I don't think a 100-pound judoka could redirect a 500-pound sumo wrestler's attack.

When weapons come into play, it seems like size still matters, but to a much lesser degree. Weapons are a great equalizer. Maybe this is an oversimplification, but it seems like the deadlier and more sophisticated the weapon, the less the strength of the user matters. If a big man and a small man are fighting with clubs or sticks, the big man will usually have the benefits of reach and power. If the men are fighting with sharp weapons like daggers or swords, the strength will basically be equalized because stabbing or slashing someone doesn't require that much force. Still, the big man will have a slight reach advantage. In a gunfight, however, the big man and the small man are pretty much equal. The small man may even have a slight advantage because he is a smaller target than the big man.

So, I think that how much size matters in a fight depends on the type of fighting one is doing. Well, that's my ramble for today.