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What do you guys think? Does size and strenght matter? Not asking if a small fighter can beat a big figther all things being equal except for strength-because anyone can get lucky on any given day. The question though...does size and strength matter? I would say yes, but I think it is not the only important thing.
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I think it matters in what someone should focus on in their personal development. I don't think it matters in how good a fighter they can be.Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
What do you guys think? Does size and strenght matter? Not asking if a small fighter can beat a big figther all things being equal except for strength-because anyone can get lucky on any given day. The question though...does size and strength matter? I would say yes, but I think it is not the only important thing.
Regards, Mike -
Good point, Mike.Comment
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It's the same thing as beauty...
Beauty itsn't the main thing...but surely it will render everything simpler.
Ditto for strenght and size. A short and weak guy will be ever on handicap. You can get away in a fight with size and strenght alone, sometimes even against technique. Man I'm 6'3 and 200 lbs now; surely eyes, knees and throat will be as weak as they can be, but if you come against me at 140 pounds, better you'll be sugar ray robinson, 'cause if not there a large chance that your blows will not stop me...Comment
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Size
You ever workout with one of those 12 yr old whiz-bang black belts who have great technique, yet wouldn't have an ice cube's chance in hell against you in a real fight?
Size matters! It's not the deciding factor... but it does matter. IMO.... it's all about attributes.... speed, size, technique, timing, killer instict, endurance, etc.... He who has the superior blend of attributes (at that point in time) is the winner. It is true that your attribute of skill could negate an opponent's superior size and power... but it's not a given.
Personally, if I had to fight a 7'6" 400 pounder.... strength and size would matter to me!
~KevComment
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Burt Richardson talks something about this in an article "Fighting a Larger Opponent", I think is the name. He talks about a sumo wrestler and a conversation they had.Comment
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The ability of every fighter is dependent upon three factors: attributes, strategy, and technique. Size matters, but it is an attribute like any other. If an individual doesn't know how to use his size to his advantage, it can be a hindrance to him. I have sparred against huge guys (over 6'4'' and 350 lbs) in both JKD and jujitsu schools — those who knew how to use that size were frightening, but the those who did not know how to use it were slow, cumbersome, and sloppy. A really flexible guy is not automatically a good fighter, but he will be harder to spar against because he will be more difficult to place in grappling holds and joint locks. If he takes this flexibility and builds his fighting style around it, he can be a good fighter. Similarly, a big guy is not automatically a great fighter, just heavier, stronger, and harder to move. It is only when this big guy structures a personalized fighting system (which can come as a result of multiple street fights, not just martial arts training) around this attribute that he will really be a threat.
Take care and train hard,
JimComment
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yeah size definately matters...might not decide the outcome of a fight but it matters...
Note to small guys...HIT THE GYM!!
An unskilled Big strong guy can beat a very skilled small guy...sad but true(sometimes)
Brute strength can do alot...
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Bau13, I agree with you most of the time..but I got this buddy.. he can punish men.. big big men. he goes about 140. He wrestles.. I've seen him take 6'5 men of large girth (not fat..just large boned, big guys) and treat them like women while wrestling.. honest. it's something to see..and he's not big. he's pretty strong, but nothing outrageous.. he's no powerlifter..
This whole post isn't directed at Bau13, by the way..it's just my thoughts..not a mile long contradiction..
I've had other friends like this, but this one stands out..
Strength and size are important in their physics. Here's an example:
If I weigh 100 pounds, and another guy goes 200.. but we both have the same strength (measuredw ith weight lifting, not a power rating)..say we both bench 200 lbs. (i don't.) He's going to be stronger..why?
Cause he's got 200 pounds of weight as his base to push off from. see if you push someone, you have just as much push pushing back at you.. If someone is too big, you'll just shove yourself away from them, instead of shove them away from you..
So it is useful in that sense. But my brother almost doubles my bench press, and when we hit the heavy bag, you'd think it goes the other way.. I make that bag hop and pop. he does ok. But trust me, he weighs 50 pounds heavier and lifts almost twice as much.. His strength doesn't help him if he doesn't have the machine in his body..
I dunno. I don't think this was such a question in the day when we had a lot more hand to hand fighting going on. In those days, it was common knowledge the smaller guy could win, cause you saw it more often.
Then again, I'm still intimidated by larger guys..so don't think i'm talking out the bad-ass side of my mouth.. I know there will be a day for me when size doesn't mean as much..because I've seen others who are at this stage, and seeing it I know how it works..maybe that was luck for me.
-dwayneComment
Size and strength are simply tools. Smaller guys tend to (there are always exceptions) have more speed and agility than big guys. Speed and agility are also just tools. If someone hones their tools properly and takes advantage of their natural assetss then they will be a formidable opponent.
Often, the smaller guy has some advantage because a lot of big guys take the smaller guy for granted and assume they can bulldoze him.
Of course, this can work both ways. I train with a guy who's about 6 foot and 280 lbs. People tend to assume that he's going to be slow and lumbering ... and he can "play" that part. But he's actually pretty quick and graceful. If someone assumes he's slow and lumbering and underestimates him ... he'll eat them alive.
On the flip side, if someone thinks they're going to bulldoze my instructor (5' 8", 135 lbs.) ... they're going to be in for a rude surprise.
IMHO, A person's attributes are simply tools to be developed and honed ... just like everything else in our training :-)
Regards, Mike
Often, the smaller guy has some advantage because a lot of big guys take the smaller guy for granted and assume they can bulldoze him.
Of course, this can work both ways. I train with a guy who's about 6 foot and 280 lbs. People tend to assume that he's going to be slow and lumbering ... and he can "play" that part. But he's actually pretty quick and graceful. If someone assumes he's slow and lumbering and underestimates him ... he'll eat them alive.
On the flip side, if someone thinks they're going to bulldoze my instructor (5' 8", 135 lbs.) ... they're going to be in for a rude surprise.
IMHO, A person's attributes are simply tools to be developed and honed ... just like everything else in our training :-)
Regards, Mike
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very well put, mike..
I also think it's worthwhile to point out that the size/strength confusion is based mostly on the fact that those tools are SO visible..whereas, how visible is it that a guy can really throw a punch (before the fight starts)..or that he's got expert footwork behind everymove..
take eric knaus as an example. Eric doesn't look like a scrapper. Eric doesn't have an offensive, in your face attitude (on the tapes, anyway, he doesn't come across that way). He also doesn't strike me as a linebacker build. Yet, watch him handle the big guys on the tapes (juggernaut..or the pro heavyweight boxer in the concrete room..etc)..he doesn't just dominate them stickfighting, but also grappling..and a lot of the things he's doing to pull it off are very subtle.. alot of guys (untrained) can't see his footwork that is powering his everymove, or removing him from danger.. I'm certain I'm missing a lot he's doing.. cause the true energy is subtler..
I can see that a guy weighs 255..but I can't see how hard he hits..or the little guy for that matter. It's all about applying right energy to the right area in the right direction and attitude. size and strength are going to aid power. but they are just a couple of attributes..just more visible ones..
I also think it's worthwhile to point out that the size/strength confusion is based mostly on the fact that those tools are SO visible..whereas, how visible is it that a guy can really throw a punch (before the fight starts)..or that he's got expert footwork behind everymove..
take eric knaus as an example. Eric doesn't look like a scrapper. Eric doesn't have an offensive, in your face attitude (on the tapes, anyway, he doesn't come across that way). He also doesn't strike me as a linebacker build. Yet, watch him handle the big guys on the tapes (juggernaut..or the pro heavyweight boxer in the concrete room..etc)..he doesn't just dominate them stickfighting, but also grappling..and a lot of the things he's doing to pull it off are very subtle.. alot of guys (untrained) can't see his footwork that is powering his everymove, or removing him from danger.. I'm certain I'm missing a lot he's doing.. cause the true energy is subtler..
I can see that a guy weighs 255..but I can't see how hard he hits..or the little guy for that matter. It's all about applying right energy to the right area in the right direction and attitude. size and strength are going to aid power. but they are just a couple of attributes..just more visible ones..
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Originally posted by quietanswer
very well put, mike..
I also think it's worthwhile to point out that the size/strength confusion is based mostly on the fact that those tools are SO visible..whereas, how visible is it that a guy can really throw a punch (before the fight starts)..or that he's got expert footwork behind everymove..
take eric knaus as an example. Eric doesn't look like a scrapper. Eric doesn't have an offensive, in your face attitude (on the tapes, anyway, he doesn't come across that way). He also doesn't strike me as a linebacker build. Yet, watch him handle the big guys on the tapes (juggernaut..or the pro heavyweight boxer in the concrete room..etc)..he doesn't just dominate them stickfighting, but also grappling..and a lot of the things he's doing to pull it off are very subtle.. alot of guys (untrained) can't see his footwork that is powering his everymove, or removing him from danger.. I'm certain I'm missing a lot he's doing.. cause the true energy is subtler..
I can see that a guy weighs 255..but I can't see how hard he hits..or the little guy for that matter. It's all about applying right energy to the right area in the right direction and attitude. size and strength are going to aid power. but they are just a couple of attributes..just more visible ones..
very well put, mike..
I also think it's worthwhile to point out that the size/strength confusion is based mostly on the fact that those tools are SO visible..whereas, how visible is it that a guy can really throw a punch (before the fight starts)..or that he's got expert footwork behind everymove..
take eric knaus as an example. Eric doesn't look like a scrapper. Eric doesn't have an offensive, in your face attitude (on the tapes, anyway, he doesn't come across that way). He also doesn't strike me as a linebacker build. Yet, watch him handle the big guys on the tapes (juggernaut..or the pro heavyweight boxer in the concrete room..etc)..he doesn't just dominate them stickfighting, but also grappling..and a lot of the things he's doing to pull it off are very subtle.. alot of guys (untrained) can't see his footwork that is powering his everymove, or removing him from danger.. I'm certain I'm missing a lot he's doing.. cause the true energy is subtler..
I can see that a guy weighs 255..but I can't see how hard he hits..or the little guy for that matter. It's all about applying right energy to the right area in the right direction and attitude. size and strength are going to aid power. but they are just a couple of attributes..just more visible ones..
Regards, Mike
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So I think we all agree here that size does make a difference. Maybe not in the aspect of winning and losing, but I think in the aspect of what we train and how we train it. Thanks to everyone for all the help here, I'll print this out and give this to the guy. Please continue on if anyone else has other things to post here.
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Physics
Inertia really comes into play with a difference in size. Take the same person and have him cloned him only bigger and proportionately stronger. Then have them race 5 miles in a straight line and the larger clone will win. Have them run the same distance only with a zigzig pattern every step and the bigger clone will change directions slower and run out of gas faster due to the extra energy required to change momentum. Also power= mass*velocity SQUARED!. If you are smaller increasing your strength should be a concern but not to the point that its your main attribute. Mikey Burnett is a good example of why not to try and outstrength people. An attribute is most effective when your ahead of everyone else with it. A smaller guy will never be in this position. However he can be in the speed and agility category.
Inertia really comes into play with a difference in size. Take the same person and have him cloned him only bigger and proportionately stronger. Then have them race 5 miles in a straight line and the larger clone will win. Have them run the same distance only with a zigzig pattern every step and the bigger clone will change directions slower and run out of gas faster due to the extra energy required to change momentum. Also power= mass*velocity SQUARED!. If you are smaller increasing your strength should be a concern but not to the point that its your main attribute. Mikey Burnett is a good example of why not to try and outstrength people. An attribute is most effective when your ahead of everyone else with it. A smaller guy will never be in this position. However he can be in the speed and agility category.
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hm.. Power is not Mass*Speed squared.. not to be a nitpicker..but it's
Energy=Mass*Speed squared.
Why do I bother to correct you? Well..cause power in martial art is a little different from energy.
I still apply the equation to why I want to get faster..because that helps me develop power..
But you use this equation to state that a small guy will never catch up:
"An attribute is most effective when your ahead of everyone else with it. A smaller guy will never be in this position. However he can be in the speed and agility category. "
A smaller guy will never develop more "mass"..(weight times volume) than a larger guy. sure. that's the definition.
But I know smaller guys who are far, far more powerful than guys twice their size. just straight up "push against me I push against you" power. it has to do with leverage and balance..which doesn't fall into einsteins simplified equation of relativity.
Still, I really don't argue with the main jist of your statement..merely the mix up in your equation. I'm a little guy, I work on speed more than strength, for the reasons you suggest. But a smaller guy can get far more power than a largger guy.. if he trains for it. I only say this because I've seen it, in real altercations (not 'play' or sparring), more than once. (my friend was a scrapper..)
Energy=Mass*Speed squared.
Why do I bother to correct you? Well..cause power in martial art is a little different from energy.
I still apply the equation to why I want to get faster..because that helps me develop power..
But you use this equation to state that a small guy will never catch up:
"An attribute is most effective when your ahead of everyone else with it. A smaller guy will never be in this position. However he can be in the speed and agility category. "
A smaller guy will never develop more "mass"..(weight times volume) than a larger guy. sure. that's the definition.
But I know smaller guys who are far, far more powerful than guys twice their size. just straight up "push against me I push against you" power. it has to do with leverage and balance..which doesn't fall into einsteins simplified equation of relativity.
Still, I really don't argue with the main jist of your statement..merely the mix up in your equation. I'm a little guy, I work on speed more than strength, for the reasons you suggest. But a smaller guy can get far more power than a largger guy.. if he trains for it. I only say this because I've seen it, in real altercations (not 'play' or sparring), more than once. (my friend was a scrapper..)
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