Functional JKD

[Kevin]

I agree with what Chad and the other posters said in the JKD instructor thread. I trained JKDC with a local instructor for a little over 8 yrs. I value my time with him, but I prefer to go in a direction more akin to Matt Thornton, the Dog Bros and Paul Vunak. I have offered a class in Mixed Martial Arts for the last 6 months. I strive to keep the training basic, alive, and lots of work against resistance... "focusing on what would probably work... over what might possibly work" to paraphrase Mr Richardson (no intricate traps and techniques here). I include alot more sparring than my instructors did. I am wondering what if any of the "JKD-like" drills you guys have retained.

-Hubud...I kind of like this drill to teach one how to insert technique in the flow.
-Knife tapping... do you use?
-Siniwali, sumbradas, contra y contra... to teach the ability to manipulate a weapon and the counters to said attacks

Curious on your opinion of these drills, and others like these. WHAT DRILLS DO YOU LIKE... AND WHICH ONES HAVE YOU DISCARDED?!?! Personally, I think these drills can a part of the curriculum... but shouldn't be the curriculum. And as the trainee progresses they should play an even smaller part.

-Learn technique
-Flow with technique
-Apply technique against progressive resistance
-Spar

Hope this post makes some sense... kinda stream of conciousness here :^)

~Kev

[Chad W. Getz]

>>-Hubud...I kind of like this drill to teach one how to insert technique in the flow.

I found that it helps me in a clinch. I think it helps to do the drill harder though. I find some usefullness in it helping me to be able to look for a strong position in the clinch.

>>-Siniwali, sumbradas, contra y contra... to teach the ability to manipulate a weapon and the counters to said attacks

Siniwalli-We still work these, but with the variations we felt more comfortable fighting with. For example, we tend to not do the ones where one stick rest on your shoulder and you do 5 hits in front of you with the other stick. IMO, that does not teach two hands to coordinate.

Sumbrada-Sumbrada is supposed to be a free flow and take movements out of fighting or it can be done a one-for-one. I do both, but right now I tend to get more out of the fighting sumbrada-or no wind sparring(50% sparring).

Contra y contra-Not familiar with it. James and I work some drills for play/talk sometimes, but not too often anymore. Now that we have protective equipment, we can modify and adapt the the drills to be a little harder. We created a few drills utilizing gear and harder contact. I think there are two of these vids on the site at the bottom.

>>WHAT DRILLS DO YOU LIKE

50% Sumbrada. This involves both people simulating a fight at 50% power. That means it is not a one for one drill. You move around in the outside range, try to jab the hand. Try to fake, try to hit the leg, set up the close, clinch, etc., etc. It's trickier to catch someone in this type of setting because you are slowed down to 50%. I don't think someone who has not been in a stickfight can do this type of sumbrada the right way though.

>>-Learn technique
>>-Flow with technique
>>-Apply technique against progressive resistance
>>-Spar

What about:

-Learn technique
-Apply technique against progressive resistance
-Flow with technique
-Spar

Good thread.

[Kevin]

Drills

Hi Chad,

Thanks for the reply.

Is the basis for your hubud training the same?
#1, meet, salute, trap, #1....
straight punch, parry, salute, trap, straight punch....
body hook, parry-elbow to bicep, scoop, body hook....
etc....

When I train hubud I insert punches, lowline kicks, sweeps, dumog, armbars, etc...
Do you focus on something different to better funtionalize your hubud?

You ever see the Takin' it to the Streets video by Tony Blauer. He did hubud with his partner wearing a motorcycle helmet. Same basic structure I use but he really blasted the guy with headbutts and elbows!

You wrote:
>>Contra y contra-Not familiar with it. James and I work some drills for play/talk sometimes, but not too often anymore. Now that we have protective equipment, we can modify and adapt the the drills to be a little harder. We created a few drills utilizing gear and harder contact. I think there are two of these vids on the site at the bottom. <<

Contra y contra is just counter for counter. You attack, I defend.... I attack, you defend. Taking turns and building in intensity as you go. The key is to move and keep it alive. Build up to the level where you both wear equiptment and actually try to hit each other. Helps to perfect the structure of your defense (so he doesn't blast thru your block), and to recognize which attack is coming.

I like one of the drills Burton was doing on his Battlefield Kali tape. Where he would tap the lead hand and then either attack high or low line, and the trainee had to recognize and defend appropiately. Good basic structure for intermedite training. Lots of other drills could be developed from this basic structure. The trainee knows attack A or B is coming.... he has to recognize and defend.

Later....
~Kev


[Edited by Kevin on 11-30-2000 at 08:50 PM]

[Chad W. Getz]

Re: Drills

Originally posted by Kevin
Is the basis for your hubud training the same?
#1, meet, salute, trap, #1....
straight punch, parry, salute, trap, straight punch....
body hook, parry-elbow to bicep, scoop, body hook....
etc....

[Edited by Kevin on 11-30-2000 at 08:50 PM]

Yes, they are the same. Different terms though, but I think they are the same. There is this other way that we do it sometimes where it looks more like chi sao than regular hubud. Ted Lucaylucay does this on his olisi palad video. We do it like a hard chi sao though, the idea being to create the resistance happening when you are closing the gap and your hands and his hands are grabbing at each other.

Originally posted by Kevin
When I train hubud I insert punches, lowline kicks, sweeps, dumog, armbars, etc...
Do you focus on something different to better funtionalize your hubud?
[Edited by Kevin on 11-30-2000 at 08:50 PM]

I pretty much train to get to the position with the most advantage, a clinch or control most of the time, and then put in the knees, elbows, and eye rakes, etc., etc. from there.

Originally posted by Kevin
You ever see the Takin' it to the Streets video by Tony Blauer. He did hubud with his partner wearing a motorcycle helmet. Same basic structure I use but he really blasted the guy with headbutts and elbows!


[Edited by Kevin on 11-30-2000 at 08:50 PM]

No, but I've seen Paul Vunak's H,K,E and I use stuff similar to that.

[Kevin]

Drills

So what drills have the rest of you... retained.... discarded.... modified(how?)?

Or do you guys completely skip drills... and just bang? ;^)

~Kev

[Harley]

hello kev,
hope you don't mind my input.
i teach and use all the drills i have learned from Guro Dan because although i don't use all the motions in sparring, who am i to decide what will and what won't work for my students. each drill has some value, even soft seemingly noncombative drills, the problem is when people look at that as "the" way to use it in a fight. simply won't happen, however the attributes that you gained during the drills will be there.
If i may, i think there is a big problem going on right now with Instructors throwing things away. many talented instructors are throwing out drills that they say are not useful, yet they do this after they already have recieved the benefit of the drill. then they throw the drill away cheating the student out of the same "experience" that the instructor had. some have dropped weaponry althogether, thats insane. they must realize that the reason they are good is because the instructor made them do drills with weapons, or made them do sensitivity drills, or sinawalli drills. which, by the way sinawalli patterns that teach one hand to hit while the other rests on the shoulder(which is not supposed to be resting but shielding the head) are designed to teach the "closest weapon to closest target" principle. often when you hit his incoming weapon or weapon hand it creates an immediate opening that would be closed if you attempted to use the other hand, so closest weapon to closest target. anyway, alot of stuff to think about, stay open minded, remember that these drills worked for someone or they wouldn't still be around. just my two cents.
harley

[Kevin]

Hi Harley,
Glad to have you here!

>>hope you don't mind my input.<<

I encourage it!

>>i teach and use all the drills i have learned from Guro Dan because although i don't use all the motions in sparring, who am i to decide what will and what won't work for my students.<<

While it is true that we stand on the shoulders of those who went before us, I think we owe it to ourselves and our students to be free thinkers. What if Bruce Lee and the Gracies had said, "Who am I to decide what will and won't work for my students"? Progress can only occur with change. Not change for the sake of change, but change which occurs with good critical experimentation and evaluation. A good techer will encourage that change, but will also point out the pitfalls in "throwing out the baby with the bath water".

Times change.... due to improved technology we can utilize protective gear which our forefathers didn't have. Maybe on "meet drills" we don't need to bang sticks... we can use a LAMECO forearm guard to better focus on our actual target. With equiptment we can make our drills more combative. We can also train our sparring differently. Our forefathers were forced to drill more because they didn't have the luxury of today's protective gear. Without the gear you risk injury... which sidelines training. Today we have the gear.

Now we have the opportunity to be exposed to all these great fighting arts like the Jun Fan arts, FMA, Muay Thai, BJJ, etc... IMO we should capitalize on the applicable info we get from these arts, but in order to do so we need to streamline the training. Like Bruce Lee did, we need to piece together different elements in a logical way. One can spend a lifetime on just perfecting arts like Wing Chun or Kali. Well.. unfortuantely it's just one lifetime to an individual. So something has to give.


We can all take different paths to the same goal. The goal is not to fight with other travellers on the way, but to protect our love ones and ourselves. Sure is fun to debate though!

Oh well.. I've said enough for now.... have to go shopping with the wife and kids. As Arnold says..."Aisle beee bock."

Later..
~Kev

[Burton]

Think about this. If the best drill is sparring, then the second best type of drill would be to pull back just slightly from full-sparring. So isolated sparring, or lighter sparring. If you want to get lots of repetitions, take movements from sparring, islolate them in an environment as close to sparring as possible, and then get your reps. If you want to deal with an angle one better in full sparring, have someone move around, adding head fakes, but just throwing ones at you. Wear protective gear whenever possible, and try to keep the training full-speed. If you degrade to slow motion, cooperative, pre-arranged patterns, you will not be using your training time efficiently. Enjoy!

[Harley]

Hello Burton,
one of my best friends and instructors, Terry Gibson spoke highly of you, it's a pleasure to exchange training tips with you. look forward to more in the future.
Harley

[Kevin]

Regards

Hi Harley...

Tell Darian... that Kevin (from Cleveland) sends his best.

~Kev

[Harley]

hello kevin,
Darian is in Tulsa at Gibson's, i have my own school in wichita falls, tx. you may reach him at Gibsonsmartialarts.com. i sure he would be glad to hear from you.
harley

[Burton]

Terry Gibson was a delight to be around. A great martial artist, person, and warrior. You are lucky, Harley, to have trained with him.

[Harley]

Burton,
Thank you very much for you kind words, yes he was an Outstanding individual. I have many fond memories of living with him, training with him and working with him. It has been three years since his passing and it still seems like i talked to him last week.
How are things with you? I understand you are in Hawaii now. is that info current? do you still do seminars in the mainland? if so please contact me at
http://www.warriorswaytx.com we would be interested in hosting a seminar.
harley

[Burton]

Yes, I am enjoying life in Hawaii! Great training weather all year around. I will send you an e-mail tomorrow. Enjoy!