JKD and the "floating" punch

[Uke]

This is, and if it isn't it should be, the most controversial part of what Bruce Lee gave to the Western world. The "floating" punch, is a strike that was said to have been created by Lee and taught to James DeMile. It is said to be a deadly strike capable of killing or crushing with just one blow. It is said to be lethal, practical and easy to learn.

Since this is the JKD forum, I feel that this is the correct place to discuss this. Does anyone here practice this technique? And if so, have you been successful in developing the necessary power to make the strike lethal? I ask only because I have not seen many of you discuss this technique, when in my opinion, it should be the main focus of your training. The ability to, as DeMile describes " break necks, collapse lungs and break heart valves".

So again, I ask the question, "Does any practice this technique, and if so have you enjoyed success?"

[carter]

Well, i know how one is supposed to go about doing the punch, but I havent really practiced, i read about it in a book by james demile. Im not sure if its real practical in a fighting situation, i wouldnt think it would be though. Ive always looked at it as more of a trick to show off his explosive power.

Its said that it could kill someone, but i dont think its happened yet since everyone takes such precausions before performing it, so at this point its more of a theory than fact i suppose?

Your comment "I ask only because I have not seen many of you discuss this technique, when in my opinion, it should be the main focus of your training" that troubles me, i totaly disagree, i dont think it should be that big of a factor in your training unless your a performer, if your a martial artists i think you should be focusing more on your conditioning, coordination, and fighting techniques, and if your just refering to it as a focus for fighting techniques than i think their are better techniques out their that would help you win a fight.

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[Uke]

I undertstand where you're coming from, Carter. However, the way Mr DeMile explained this technique makes it seem as if it were an external technique with internal power. Its supposed to be a crippling blow, so if its able to be mastered, what other technique in JKD would you suggest is more important?

The "floating" punch is a supposed equalizer, if you read about it. And it is going in the direction of ultimate conditioning. The goal in any art should be to make each strike powerful enough to end an altercation with just ONE blow, and to date there is nothing like that except for certain poison hand techniques which attack soft areas and joint misplacement.

I'm not telling people to drop what they're doing to go run to JKD schools in order to learn this technique. I am putting the question to anyone who may have practiced/mastered this technique, as it is clearly stated that its power gives you a one blow knockout and/or kill. I don't know about you Carter, but most of the practitioners of ANY style that I know spend their time trying to make their techniques more powerful, and by doing so more effective. You can spend your time becoming stronger, more nimble or memorizing kata to be better at sequences. The best fighters that I know have done all those things, but its the potency of their weapons (fists,feet,knees and elbows) that set them apart from everyone else doing the same.

"Make every hand a knife, every finger a dagger" is what they say. It used to be that only internal styles offered that kind of power, but according to Mr DeMile, with some practice and no martial arts experience required you can perform this technique. I'd like to discuss this with someone who has enjoyed some success with it. Learn how long it took them to see results and find out if they are able to use it in practical application.

So I apologize if I offended you Carter, by saying that the floating punch should be a JKD's main focus, but I still feel that way. Making your dull weapons sharper should always be your main focus as it always has been in any war. Even before strategy is calculated, its already assumed that warriors will wield weapons that kill. Many are led to believe in romantic ideas that throughout history warriors fought hand to hand and it looked like today's choreography. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like a sword fight, its usually the first 2 or 3 blows that decides the winner. On the street, when its your life on the line, its usually the first 1 or 2 moves that determines the winner. If a floating punch could be the first strike that determines the outcome, why wouldn't you focus on it? All your other techniques will only be geared to put you in position to use it anyway.

That's my opinion. I've always been taught that a warrior looks for a conclusion, not opportunities to look pretty with displays. If there are men who have found success with floating punches, dim mak or pressure point knockouts in PRACTICAL APPLICATION, who wouldn't want to learn to apply them?

[doubleouch]

Well,
I don't think it is an effective punch. I've seen it pulled off several times in demos etc. If it was as effective as DeMille says then someone would be using it to great advantage. How many times do you see it in MMA competition or in Boxing? If it did work then surely somewhere there would be an athlete wo would be using it effectively to win every martial arts tourney. The other scenario would be that is really is that effective, but it is so difficult to master that only Lee and DeMille have mastered it. In either case it becomes a useless technique. Myself I prefer to spend my time working on techniques I know work because I have made them work, or if I haven't made them work I have seen them work countless times by other people using them against resisting opponents. If you want to know for sure then you'll have to spend 10 years or so working on it and then test it out for yourself!

[Uke]

Well,
I don't think it is an effective punch. I've seen it pulled off several times in demos etc. If it was as effective as DeMille says then someone would be using it to great advantage. How many times do you see it in MMA competition or in Boxing? If it did work then surely somewhere there would be an athlete wo would be using it effectively to win every martial arts tourney. The other scenario would be that is really is that effective, but it is so difficult to master that only Lee and DeMille have mastered it. In either case it becomes a useless technique. Myself I prefer to spend my time working on techniques I know work because I have made them work, or if I haven't made them work I have seen them work countless times by other people using them against resisting opponents. If you want to know for sure then you'll have to spend 10 years or so working on it and then test it out for yourself!

Thank you for your reply, doubleouch. I agree with your ideas about using what you MAKE work, but I also never rule out that there are those that can teach me to make what I use better. If it were possible, I would love to see DeMile perform the punch, but he won't. I believe he says that he doesn't want to use it because of how dangerous it is. On the same note, no one ever gets to see it, or know its value.

[atlas1212]

Uke,

I don't mean to sound like a jerk here, but are you some sort of armchair martial artist? You obviously have never fought or sparred hard. If you had, you would know that there are no mystery techniques. You would also know that a fight has MANY variables and you can't concentrate on one "punch" that is effective from a few inches. What about when you are in kicking range, or punching range, or grappling range? Even in trapping range things are going a million miles an hour and you can't just hold out on getting in one "floating punch" and ending it. To spend valuable training time devoted to one limited technique is foolish.

To be a good fighter or to be prepared for self-defense you must be competent from all ranges. You must have a variety of techniques that are appropriate for a variety of situations. You must be in decent shape and you must practice these techniques against resisting "live" opponents.

Plus, if Bruce Lee thought this technique was the end all be all of fighting, he would have promoted it as such in the Tao or in his Fighting Method books. He didn't. Bruce was one of the most well rounded martial artists of his day or perhaps ever. He would never focus on one technique to the neglect of all his others.

I think you are grasping into the realm of theoretical here which Bruce warned against. The only true way to be prepared for a fight is to prepare yourself for all phases of combat using the most effective techniques at all phases. As far as Demille, I can't even comment on what you've quoted from him because I've never heard him say that. I have seen his curriculum and it doesn't even mention the floating punch and it is heavy on standard JKD stuff that everyone has seen.

Don't get caught up in mystery. There is enough reality out there to be worried about.

[doubleouch]

Yea,
I agree with atlas. Although I might have been a bit kinder in my words. It's true. There is no magic punch.

[Thai Bri]

Unless you're a Ninja.

[toshiro]

ninjas

I saw a "ninja" knock a bunch of his girlfriends teeth out with an elbow.....it was supposed to be training.....them ninja's must be hard.

[atlas1212]

Was he wearing Tabi boots?

[Uke]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk here, but are you some sort of armchair martial artist? You obviously have never fought or sparred hard. If you had, you would know that there are no mystery techniques.

No, I am not an armchair martial artists.

Again, I asked if anyone practiced it. I didn't advocate it, but I spoke of its reported effectiveness. But I have to ask, how exactly how do you know what's possible? Have you conducted some tests or have intimate knowledge of what we are speaking of? Years ago before martial arts became popular, people thought boxing was the best form of self defense, and now 50 years later we see just how much boxing was only one component. What does this prove? It proves that you know nothing, but believe you’ve got things figured out.

I have seen many things growing up in the shadow of many masters in NY. I've learned that just because I haven't found or seen something "YET" doesn't mean that there aren't others who can do it. To insult me because I question the forum about a technique that I read about just let's me know that you haven't learned much outside your small neck of the woods, and you sadly think that you know what anyone can do in the martial arts.

Plus, if Bruce Lee thought this technique was the end all be all of fighting, he would have promoted it as such in the Tao or in his Fighting Method books. He didn't. Bruce was one of the most well rounded martial artists of his day or perhaps ever. He would never focus on one technique to the neglect of all his others.

.

In an earlier post on another thread, I pointed out Bruce Lee told Dan Inosanto that he didn't see the merit in Phillipino martial arts, and told him to abandon them. However, nearly EVERY JKD practitioner practices some kind of Philipino style. So don't talk about what would be in JKD or not in JKD if Bruce Lee wanted it, because that's a clear example of how Bruce's wishes are not honored in his method. And it’s ashamed that you think that you have somehow "figured" out all Bruce Lee knew by reading the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and his method books. How do you know that he wouldn't have written another book later had he lived? Again...you don't know. And again, how do you know how good a martial artists Lee was? Were you ever with him? Did you ever fight or train with him? Or are you using “Game of Death” or other such films as the basis for your argument? Making statements about something you’ve only received second or third hand information about makes you a parrot. Someone who repeats what he’s “heard” in order to seem like he knows what he’s talking about. You didn’t know Lee. You didn’t know what the man may have had planned. You’ve NEVER actually seen him fight anyone, yet you’re making comments about him being THEE most well rounded martial artists, then and maybe ever, based on the books you’ve read and action movies you’ve seen? I bet you feel like you know him, don't you?

And then you have the nerve to ask if I am an armchair martial artist because I asked a question about a technique that LEE's senior student promotes, but you’re entire knowledge on the subject is based off 2 or 3 books and his action movies.

Go figure.

[atlas1212]

Uke,

"it should be the main focus of your training. The ability to, as DeMile describes " break necks, collapse lungs and break heart valves"."

You didn't "question" a technique. You implied that from reading about DeMile's 1 inch punch, that it should be the core training method of a JKD practioner.

I simply explained that if you ever sparred or fought, you would see that an emphasis on 1 single technique over all others is shortsighted and ineffective. The 1 inch punch has it's place, but it's hard to pull off in self-defense and I would be wary of DeMile's claims about breaking necks and heart valves.

I am not basing everything I know about Bruce Lee from the Tao or his Method books. I am basing it on every single biography I've read. Every film I've seen. Every interview. Ever JKD practioner who practiced with Bruce himself. Inosanto, Wong, Poteet and even DeMile do not emphasize the 1 inch punch to the exclusion of all else (if they emphasize or teach it at all). In fact, it's not even in most of their curriculums and these men trained with Lee. The burden of proof isn't on me. It's on you to show me that Lee wanted the 1 inch punch to be the end all be all of fighting. He used it as a demonstration tool. He used it to show the potential effectiveness of a lead punch. But from training video I've seen of Bruce and from spending time with his students, I've never once heard it taught in a fighting setting.

Show me evidence that Bruce Lee wanted filipino arts abandoned. Dan Inosanto was Bruce Lee's closest student and friend before his death. Dan has showed more respect for Bruce Lee's wishes and motives than any person on the planet, including Linda Lee Cadwell. To imply that he somehow ignored Bruce is wrong and requires proof. BUT, it really doesn't matter because I'm a firm believer in not treating JKD as an unchangable "style", as was Bruce himself. So the addition of Filipino arts, BJJ or anything else can't be sacreligious because Bruce Lee/JKD wasn't a religion.

"If there are men who have found success with floating punches, dim mak or pressure point knockouts in PRACTICAL APPLICATION, who wouldn't want to learn to apply them?"

There aren't men who have done this!! Pressure point knockouts are BS in "practical application." You are falling into a trap of mystery, Uke. Don't focus on the BS theoretical. Practice expressing yourself honestly at all ranges of combat. There is no magic technique.

The closest I'm going to get to agreeing with you is by saying that the 1 inch punch has it's place in fighting. It's application is EXTREMELY limited and it occurs in the trapping range. There are better weapons there like headbutts, elbows, knees etc. If you had ever fought full contact, with a live person trying to beat your head in you would realize that a fight in trapping range is dynamic, off balance and extremely violent. You can't spend time on high motor skill techniques like the 1 inch punch.

[toshiro]

Yes he was wearing tabi boots, green camo ones.....

[shueng]

This is, and if it isn't it should be, the most controversial part of what Bruce Lee gave to the Western world. The "floating" punch, is a strike that was said to have been created by Lee and taught to James DeMile. It is said to be a deadly strike capable of killing or crushing with just one blow. It is said to be lethal, practical and easy to learn.

Since this is the JKD forum, I feel that this is the correct place to discuss this. Does anyone here practice this technique? And if so, have you been successful in developing the necessary power to make the strike lethal? I ask only because I have not seen many of you discuss this technique, when in my opinion, it should be the main focus of your training. The ability to, as DeMile describes " break necks, collapse lungs and break heart valves".

So again, I ask the question, "Does any practice this technique, and if so have you enjoyed success?"

The floating punch is useful in non-stance fighting when one is facing the opponent both in neutral stance. A powerful surprise attack from close range, sparring has too many variables and counters to use in a practical way.
The practical bit is it,s use during a serious verbal threat, a sudden and decision making punch to end an attack before it get,s going.