PFS vs SBG

[NHBMARK1]

If the Paul Vunak Progressive Fighting System & Matt Thornton's Straight Blast Gym are considered the more progessive versions of the JKD camps, I have a few questions.

I'm curious first from the individuals from both camps what the core of each is & why one might pick one over another.

And for those who have trained in both what the differences are & is PFS training "alive"?

All opinions appreciated,

Thanks folks & have a nice weekend,

[atlas1212]

SBG is total concept JKD. They use whatever works, abandon the rest and test everything in full contact. They believe that NHB training is suitable for the street or at least, a much better base to begin learning "self-defense" and "dirty tricks". They are HEAVY on western boxing, wrestling and BJJ.

PFS starts more from a "dirty tricks" approach. It's a blend of concept and original JKD. It focuses a lot on the Filipino arts. But Vunak has been using terms like "aliveness" and advocating full contact fighting since the mid-80's. So PFS doesn't lack SBG concepts. PFS blends Wing Chun, Savate, Boxing, Wresting, Muay Thai, Filipino Arts etc. It's more eclectic than SBG as far as arts used.

If you are a person who wants intense physical conditioning, hard full contact training and a NHB approach to fighting, SBG is where you want to be. They are no BS, scientific and balls out.

PFS is more up your alley if you want something effective, progressive and what looks vaguely like what Bruce Lee did.

If you want EXACTLY what Bruce Lee did, go to a teacher like Poteet, Dill or whoever uses the "original" curriculum and doesn't add anything else.

[warriors13]

Stance

I have a question about PFS. There is a Phase 1 instructor in my area and I'm considering joining them however, my brother took an intro course and he said that they stand strong side forward. Is this they way they teach the system? I'm currently taking Muay Thai and love the stance and I don't want to make any changes to it. Thanks in advance!

[warriors13]

You might want to consider purchasing some of Straight Blast GYM's instructional DVD's to get and idea of the system. Just a short list of the DVD's:

Rodney King's Crazy Monkey
Adam and Rory's Hardcore Training
UK and Denmark Seminar which covers the Crazy Monkey

[toshiro]

You might want to consider purchasing some of Straight Blast GYM's instructional DVD's to get and idea of the system. Just a short list of the DVD's:

Rodney King's Crazy Monkey
Adam and Rory's Hardcore Training
UK and Denmark Seminar which covers the Crazy Monkey

Sorry the title of the first DVD really made me laugh....sounds like something a certain Rodney King might have been drinking here in the US before he got a beat down......

But seriously, I don't know alot about SBG. I know a little about Vunak, but not much from the last 10 years or so. From what I understand the SBG cround are heavily into the MMA thing, while Vunak (at least from my experience) is much more into street side of things.....So I guess it would depend on what your intentions were.

[toshiro]

Almost forgot, I don't think that most guys that would have had any intensive training with Vunak would train "strong side forward"

[doubleouch]

At SBG we aren't a MMA school per se. We are a performance based school. We focuss on performance in standup, clinch and ground. For a good look at what we do go to straightblastgym.com and look at Matt's articles and interviews. His street vs. sport commentary is very good.

[Thai Bri]

And very contencious.

[NHBMARK1]

I'd love to hear Burton's opinion on this since I believe he & VU came up through Dan Innosanto the same time period. So I assume he's familiar with Paul & PFS & I know more recently he's adopted Matt's aliveness
concepts as well. (This isn't to cause trouble by the way & I respect your feelings if you pass on the subject)

[Turbo]

For WARRIOR13, I dont think any true JKD school is really going to care if you stand left or right lead! Some like to teach this to very beginners, because they lack speed and power.

NHBMARK1 I too would like to hear from Burt or his group....they have shifted more toward a straight Blast mentality. I to train less chi sao or JKD trapping, for the clinch as I use it more in sparring. I feel we (JKD) got off to a great start with Bruce learning and teaching, learn all types of fighting- kicking, striking, Trapping(Clinch), grappling. And telling us to spar it find out what works. Then we got stuck in set patterns just like everyone else....pak sao, lop sao, straight blast, etc.....I think guys like Erik Paulson, Matt Thorton and Burt Richardson are picking up where Bruce would have eventually gotten....Making it simple, and adding a resisting opponent.

[NHBMARK1]

He's usually pretty open, but maybe he doesn't want to go there.(too politcal
perhaps?)

I'd also be interested in knowing what Guru Dan thinks of his affiliation with Matt.

[doubleouch]

Guro Dan doesn't have any affiliation with Matt. Nor does Matt claim one. There is no animosity there as they both seem to respect what the other is doing. Burton is a good friend and collegue of Matt. They speak highly of each other and share many beliefs about training.

[Thai Bri]

Hallelujah!

At last someone who realises that real fights don't start when a ref says "Go".

[DJColdfusion]

TTT for Mike.

Check your messages.

The real question is does training for sport maximize street effectiveness or does training for street exclude sport effectiveness. I believe Matt Thornton would say, and this is me speaking, that "the delivery system overrides the venue" . . . in which case it comes down to effective preparation with determined, and preferably skilled, resistance.

There are a few defense instructors out there who would argue that the best method of learning a physically combative skill is to place the subject (the learner) into a physically and emotionally stressed situation and then forcing them to perform the desired skill.

Learn the skill in a "safe" environment; perform/test the skill in a "stressed" environment.

An example of a stressed environment would be one of Mike Brewer's "2 on 1," or "3 on 2" sparring sessions (I am assuming that Mike still works mass attack scenarios, I haven't been in one of his classes in several years). In that type of a session your focus turns from worrying about proper technique execution to plain-old survival (if you are part of the "smaller" group).

This doesn't mean that PFS guys are anti-sport. Mike is an accomplished Muay-Thai specialist, and he practices BJJ (or at least he did the last time I saw him which has been several years). There are other PFS instructors like Mike, who excel at the sporting aspects as well as prepare themselves for the uglier "street" possibilities.

None of this means that I believe that PFS is better than SBG. I am only trying to point out that the two approaches, while different in some significant ways, does not necessarily mean that one organization is better than the other.

However, on a personal level, I believe the more you are exposed to a situation the better you will be prepared to overcome any obstacle that you may find when that situation, or something similar to it, arises outside of the safety of your training group.

[kengar]

Best advice I have is to learn the tools from whatever lead you are most comfortable, train them from both leads to even things up, and then apply them under pressure and unpredictability in training.

This is it right there, train both sides because you won't be able to predict your fighting stance if the situation arises. I actually shoot left-handed at the range and had someone question why I was wasting my time doing so. I just stated that maybe the day before I had to defend my family I had broken my right arm and it was in a cast. Better to train at the range than in my hallway.