How tough was Bruce Lee?

[Chilly Dog]

Regarding homosexuality being rife in MMA again acknowledged fact, what are you saying there are no gays whatsoever in MMA? Dont be fooolish. There are not just a few but it is widespread, many are bisexual too; who hasnt heard of the well known MMA lightweight who pulled out a match because another not as well known MMA heavyweight was giving it to him from behind the night before , and he told his coaches he found it quite painful to walk never mind move around a ring well, so he withdrew.

It's also widely known that most male jail guards are gay, too. They choose that career -- in spite of the stress, low pay, psychological abuse and physical danger -- so that they can strip search the prisoners.

[Tant01]

BL was an exceptional artist, was he "tough"? I don't know but he was no match for Gene Lebelle. He was an innovative teacher and student but mostly, he was an actor. He certainly acted tough.

[Chilly Dog]

BL was an exceptional artist, was he "tough"? I don't know but he was no match for Gene Lebelle. He was an innovative teacher and student but mostly, he was an actor. He certainly acted tough.

Well, for me, anyone who gets in the ring to test their heart, courage and skills, is tough. This goes double for those who do this outside the ring (although these folks are foolish, too).

He may have been an actor, but there are several documented instances of Lee fighting unknown challengers -- mostly Asians angry that he was teaching Americans or skeptical of his skill -- in both the US and Hong Kong, outside the ring. In fact, there were enough of these situations -- and his attitude was aggressive enough -- that some folks described him as something of a "bully." Many of the witnesses to these challenges claim to have been amazed at Lee's skill level.

All of this could be hype -- obviously none of us knows for sure. But I tell you this: if I lived in his time, I sure wouldn't have been the one to step up and find out!

[Tant01]

Documented incidents? Before he came to Hollywood (USA) he had a reputation as a bully, I've heard that, read that and seen it on TV. I belive there were "situations" and Bruce could hold his own but there's much more ledgend and rumor than there were actual fights. There are still people alive today that knew Mr.Lee so I think we have a good idea of who he was. As generations pass and newer students of 3rd or 5th generation students of students come to teach Juan Fan Gung Fu JKD it will flourish where it grows best, in the hearts of artists that want to excell. JKD is just a name. If I knew then what I know now, I think I could take him! ;-)

I made the mistake once of asking a senior Navy Master Chief if he thought he could take BL.

You don't want to read his politically incorrect, derrogatory, racist reply. This was during the height of the "cold war" and it wasn't very flattering. But if you do I'll send it. LOL


"In these modern times, many men are wounded fo not having weapons or knowledge of their use".
Achille Morozzo 1536

[Chilly Dog]

Documented incidents?

Yes, documented incidents. I've seen two documentaries that featured between them at least ten people claiming to have witnessed multiple fights involving Bruce Lee. A fair number of them were journalists, and most claimed the fights took place in Hong Kong. Some of them used language like "he was challenged all the time, and usually accepted" to indicate that it was a common occurance. Maybe these folks were lying, but, until proven so, that qualifies as documentation. Unless you've got a different definition of it...

By the way...given that you acknowledge that he did have some fights, how many does it take to meet your definition of "tough?" Is he tough if he had ten, but not so if he only had seven? What if he had one fight against two attackers? Does that give him double credit??? If he's fighting someone and a friend jumps in at the end to help the other guy, is that 1 1/2?

[wardancer]

Sort of a weird question, maybe absurdly n00bish. I know nothing about Martial Arts except what I learned in Tae Kwon Do about 10 years ago, when I was 11. I know he's respected as an innovator and a pioneer, a sort of Renaissance Man, but could he kick my ass? Was he truly feared as a fighter, or was it all kind of aesthetic? Did he ever have any sort of competitive fights? Can he genuinely be considered one of the toughest SOBs, and how would he stack up against modern Martial Arts champions?

Just sort of interested, I love his movies and I find him to be extremely charismatic, and... well, he looks to me like a tough little guy. The Lee vs Norris fight scene is what made me look into Martial Arts initially.

Yes he would kick your TKD ass.
Back in the days anybody doing any half-hearted kick was feared.
He did not do any competitive fights.
I considered him tough.
He would do well in modern MMA.
Because he must have been the first dude to tell people to cross train and not stick with a single MA forever.
However, crosstraining philosophy is like a double edge sword: jack of all trade, master of none.

[Tant01]

Wardancer>>>He would do well in modern MMA.
Because he must have been the first dude to tell people to cross train and not stick with a single MA forever.


I beg to differ. There are numerous examples of mixed or composite systems. It is commonly known that Bruce was weak in the grappling range. His popularity as a movie star helped launch a rebirth of interest in MA. For that he will be remembered.

[Tom Yum]

Bruce was a so-so grappler, but not weak - look through the tao of jkd for some examples of his dabbling in the grappling arts. No doubt his stand up was phenomenal; speed and power.

[Tant01]

Bruce was a so-so grappler, but not weak - look through the tao of jkd for some examples of his dabbling in the grappling arts. No doubt his stand up was phenomenal; speed and power.

As Pendekar de Thouars says "Strength is garbage. Speed is garbage. Timing is everything."

By today's standards his grappling was weak. His strength was in his humility. After Lebelle trounced him on the Kano set he started studying Judo.

[Tom Yum]

You're absolutely correct about the importance of timing, no doubt Lee's timing was awesome and his reaction time superb. He used stop hits, fakes and feints well; didn't hurt that his hand speed was lightning quick, footwork impeccable and body power was great for his size.

Strength and speed are not total garbage though. What good is timing if you've got slug speed, telegraphed or predictable motion and no strength?

If you compare his grappling to someone like Matt Furey or BJ Penn, I totally agree. Using Lee's standards yesterday compared to today's, his grappling is weak. Labelle is also a legend in grappling and had a high dan grade black belt in Judo by the 1950's. Labelle can still kick @ss. He choked out Steven Segal in a challenge that Segal could effectively escape from any chokehold

Its too bad there's no senior class NHB, cause I think Labelle would be on top.

I think this is the thounsandth thread about Bruce Lee. From now on, any new posts about Bruce Lee should either be as a short reference to something else or sent to Siberia, worse Uranus.

[Warrior Dude]

Bruce Lee Was Not Drug Taker or Gay

Very interesting to note also that Bruce Lee was not a drug taker or homosexual , unlike many in MMA circles (see previous posts in this thread).

Bruce Lee took cannabis occasionally but no other illegal drugs; only after consulting his doctor, who advised it would not harm his fitness or health.

Bruce did not take steroids, contrary to what imbeciles like Tom Bleeker , etc ('Unsettled Matters' book, etc) claim. Taking illegal steroids designed specifically for muscle growth, is completely different and opposed to taking medication for a bad back. If medication to relieve back problems whether steroids or normal medication really helped develop muscles, EVERY BODYBUILDER & MMA IN TOWN WOULD BE GOING TO THE DOCTOR WITH BACK PROBLEMS TO GET SOME FREE! Bleeker, etc do it to sell there tacky books and stories - it works but it sure isnt true.

Bruce was definitely not homosexual! Nobody has ever asserted otherwise.


ON THE CONTRARY :-

Illegal drugs are used often in MMA circles. Many fighters take them before a fight to boost their performance. Some take mixtures of cocaine/speed to dull the pain and improve alertness/ speed during a fight. Many leading fighters have taken them, others who havent will testify that their use is widespread by competitive MMA's.

Steroids again widespread in MMA circles - FACT! look at the physiques of some for a start. Many take them not only for competitive edge in fights, but also for increased agression and inability to feel pain. As widespread as in bodybuilding.

Homosexuality - rife & widespread in MMA circles recent statistics indicated 70% of male MMA are homosexual or bisexual. Some are married who have relations with other male athletes without their wives knowing. Also fact that many gay MMA like grappling because it involves close contact with other sweaty males & has the added thrill of danger , of being hit and hurt.

[Chilly Dog]

Homosexuality - rife & widespread in MMA circles recent statistics indicated 70% of male MMA are homosexual or bisexual. Some are married who have relations with other male athletes without their wives knowing. Also fact that many gay MMA like grappling because it involves close contact with other sweaty males & has the added thrill of danger , of being hit and hurt.

Why don't you give this a rest?

No one believes you, and using rediculous language like "recent statistics" doesn't help your cause.

[Tom Yum]

Very interesting to note also that Bruce Lee was not a drug taker or homosexual , unlike many in MMA circles (see previous posts in this thread).

Bruce Lee took cannabis occasionally but no other illegal drugs; only after consulting his doctor, who advised it would not harm his fitness or health.

Bruce did not take steroids, contrary to what imbeciles like Tom Bleeker , etc ('Unsettled Matters' book, etc) claim. Taking illegal steroids designed specifically for muscle growth, is completely different and opposed to taking medication for a bad back. If medication to relieve back problems whether steroids or normal medication really helped develop muscles, EVERY BODYBUILDER & MMA IN TOWN WOULD BE GOING TO THE DOCTOR WITH BACK PROBLEMS TO GET SOME FREE! Bleeker, etc do it to sell there tacky books and stories - it works but it sure isnt true.

Bruce was definitely not homosexual! Nobody has ever asserted otherwise.


ON THE CONTRARY :-

Illegal drugs are used often in MMA circles. Many fighters take them before a fight to boost their performance. Some take mixtures of cocaine/speed to dull the pain and improve alertness/ speed during a fight. Many leading fighters have taken them, others who havent will testify that their use is widespread by competitive MMA's.

Steroids again widespread in MMA circles - FACT! look at the physiques of some for a start. Many take them not only for competitive edge in fights, but also for increased agression and inability to feel pain. As widespread as in bodybuilding.

Homosexuality - rife & widespread in MMA circles recent statistics indicated 70% of male MMA are homosexual or bisexual. Some are married who have relations with other male athletes without their wives knowing. Also fact that many gay MMA like grappling because it involves close contact with other sweaty males & has the added thrill of danger , of being hit and hurt.

Trollerific.

The 900 line is ringing. They're asking for you....

[Warrior Dude]

Hey its true check it out !

What I am saying believe me is 100% bona fide fact. Anyone saying otherwise is an idiot & an ignorant one at that!

Want me to start listing names of MMA top guys that can verify each of those things - drugs illegal are used / steroids are used /homosexuality is widespread??? Not a problem to do.

It seems there are a lot of 'armchair MMA's' in this forum that do little or no training but just like to talk about it a lot. For them go ask those really in the know about those things i.e. fighters or promoters actively involved in MMA, not just armchair guys.

As for the idiot referring to me as a troll or whatever, I am certainly not anything of the sort. I am making valid legitimate points that are true, as I know many in MMA circles that can verify them. If they are not true, I see no evidence coming from anyone in this forum except childish and immature - 'we dont believe you' type comments. Name one top MMA guy that will deny those facts, name just one? There arent any, just like in bodybuilding nobody can seriously deny drug usage e.g. steroids is not widespread, how could they it is said to be impossible to win a Mr or Ms Olympia without taking them!

[Mr. Gordo]

As for the idiot referring to me as a troll or whatever, I am certainly not anything of the sort.

I'm not the original idiot referring to you as a troll, but yes, you are a troll.

Want me to start listing names of MMA top guys that can verify each of those things - drugs illegal are used / steroids are used /homosexuality is widespread??? Not a problem to do.

Yes, please enthrall us with the names.