Attacking an opponent on the street

[Stillblind]

yeah this is true.one time a friend of mine was showing me what he learned in football. he was showing me how to get under somene and lift them. it almost looked like some kinda suplex. they had to do tons of drills in that.

You just have to get low right when they are about to hit you and just kinda explode up on them. Make sure you wrap around them and drive them down hard. Most of the time it should work

[Enrique]

Lift your hand like you were punching, and then low kick to knee or nuts. I have used that couple of times, and it works.

[Dopey]

You just have to get low right when they are about to hit you and just kinda explode up on them. Make sure you wrap around them and drive them down hard. Most of the time it should work

Yeah,also aim for the mid-section/Lower body,if you aim for the upper body its gonna take another guy to take that person down,usually. You`ll get him down if explode and hit fast and hard. Be careful though,try practicing this if you think its effective,I personally think its not. The person can wrap his arms around your neck and do whatever he/she wants with you.

[Garland]

a sprawl and a guillotine choke will also work, while throwing knees to their face.

These are just some tools and methods, every time it's different, nothing's predictable, true, but at least train some tools, so that when shit does go down, you have something to do rather than stand there like a deer in headlights.

[BeingAtOne]

I agree with Garland I was thinking more and more about all the techniques that i would use or could use and I relized that really i should only have 2 or 3 and just train them to become second nature. So my next question is how would you deel with some with a knife or stick/club coming at you straight on in a rage and how would deal with them if they were more calm?

[Tom Yum]

As Mr. Miyagi said, "Best defense, not be there"

Avoiding violence by staying out of bad areas is probably the best thing. Otherwise it depends on what you are carrying and how much time you have to draw your weapon. Grabbing hold of the weapon or weapon hand is usually a good option, what you do from there depends on what style you practice.

I've seen a number of knife defenses from silat, but do not know how effective they are. Traditional Ju-jitsu also has some interesting knife defenses, but seem to involve intermittent striking - by disengaging the weapon, it seems like you are taking a calculated risk that you can strike something with enough power to damage and not get cut .

[Garland]

As Mr. Miyagi said, "Best defense, not be there"

Avoiding violence by staying out of bad areas is probably the best thing. Otherwise it depends on what you are carrying and how much time you have to draw your weapon. Grabbing hold of the weapon or weapon hand is usually a good option, what you do from there depends on what style you practice.

I've seen a number of knife defenses from silat, but do not know how effective they are. Traditional Ju-jitsu also has some interesting knife defenses, but seem to involve intermittent striking - by disengaging the weapon, it seems like you are taking a calculated risk that you can strike something with enough power to damage and not get cut .

Realistic knife encounter....you're gonna get cut. IF you know what you're doing, maybe it won't be as bad. Trying to grab the hand of a knife weilding assailant is not very practical because the knife is a whole lot faster than you are, the best you can do is hopefully train enough angles FMA style to redirect or avoid cuts as they slash to either get away, or hope to pull of a disarm or a strip to keep and take their ass out with their own blade.
Learn to sacrifice, i.e. a cut to the back of the forearm is better than one to the face, belly, or underside of the arm..
Also, with a knowledgeable attacker, cross blocking shit will get your wrists cut.
Every time I tried grabbing my instructors hand knife sparring he'd just twist to break my grip, or turn his arm to cut the wrist or something wicked, or better yet, trap my blocking hand and then continue to slice and dice.

Best systems for knife defense are these;
SAYOC KALI
INOSANTO BLEND KALI/ JKD FMA (includes elements of all Maphilandro Martial arts)
DEKITI/PEKITI TIRSIA
SILAT (most styles)
KRAV MAGA/HAGANA
LAMECO ESCRIMA
FAIRBARN/APPLEGATE METHOD

and all of these teach that defense against a knife is never even close to 100%, and the best you can hope for is survival or a chance to run or get to a weapon. Nobody in their right mind goes toes barehanded against a knife wielding assailant.

[Tom Yum]

Realistic knife encounter....you're gonna get cut. IF you know what you're doing, maybe it won't be as bad. Trying to grab the hand of a knife weilding assailant is not very practical because the knife is a whole lot faster than you are, the best you can do is hopefully train enough angles FMA style to redirect or avoid cuts as they slash to either get away, or hope to pull of a disarm or a strip to keep and take their ass out with their own blade.
Learn to sacrifice, i.e. a cut to the back of the forearm is better than one to the face, belly, or underside of the arm..
Also, with a knowledgeable attacker, cross blocking shit will get your wrists cut.
Every time I tried grabbing my instructors hand knife sparring he'd just twist to break my grip, or turn his arm to cut the wrist or something wicked, or better yet, trap my blocking hand and then continue to slice and dice.

Nobody in their right mind goes toes barehanded against a knife wielding assailant.

What you say is completely true. Agreed about the sacrifice concept and the reality and likelyhood of getting cut no matter what.

Never trade strikes emptyhanded with a knife wielding assailant - one of your statements up their reminded me of that concept. The silat system is where I'm learning some of these concepts.

Thanks for sharing the other arts too.

[bbbb]

knife lunge

Hand's up in defensive posture offering the opening to the gut's whilst appearing (harmless).
When a low lunge is made by the attacker: deflect with same arm (l/r) on outside of arm...so not to cut any arteries on inside of arm..and continue with spear arm to hit opponent
..then palm strike with opposite arm to back/side of head and control/grab
..then hammer fist when in comfortable position.

go for the man in this one!!

[Tant01]

Tom Yum>>>or [quote] What you say is completely true.


Well, not COMPLETELY... No one has mentioned barriers, shields or defanging.... It's WAAAY safer to defang than anything that involves passing that blade. Any time anyone says "this is the best" anything I'm forced to wonder... Your best bet is violent and overwhelming force. Generally speaking, anyone using a knife to commit a felony has not been trained in any system or style of MA. What they have is INTENT and most often an unarmed and unaware victim in mind.

[bbbb]

overwhelming violence...

could work?!

[bodhisattva]

what kind of answers are these?

These comments are mostly B.S.

This is the sort of thing people who don't fight have to say about fighting.

"Dude, Do this!, then this! Then this!"

It doesn't work like that.

When a man attacks you with a knife, if you can't get out of there, best idea is to get BOTH OF YOUR HANDS on his knife arm, and let your defenses come from that.

As far as what kind of strike to use, when to use it, why you use it.. that's all unnecessary information. The information you are asking for can only be learned by wrestling and boxing resisting opponents.

You want to tell me that boxing has nothing to do with knives? That wrestling has nothing to do with knives? That's fine and good.

But I have both boxed, and done my share of kali/silat/etc... and from my experience, I would FAR rather face a silat man who has a knife than a skilled boxer that has a knife. Plain and simple.

First learn how to HIT your opponent when he doesn't want you to do so.

Then learn how to control your opponents weight, when he doesn't want you to do so.

AFter you get those two first things down, the rest is simple.

Do NOT take the advice being offered. People who say "If a guy has a knife, he's not a martial artist, and only has intent..blah blah blah".. That's total crap. That sort of flippant, uninformed advice will GET A PERSON KILLED.

A man with a knife, mugging people, is a big question mark. You cannot assume what kind of background he has. You can't even assume his natural talent level, his level of intent..none of it. All you know is this: he has a knife.

He could be an ex-cop addicted to coke. He could be a man who has 3 stints in prison already and knows WAY MORE about shanking a resisting opponent than any kali man does (remember: I've done my share of kali).

The idea that this technique or that technique "will protect you" is absolutely false. The only thing that will protect you is your ability to hit and not be hit, and your ability to control your own weight while controlling your opponents. If you can't do that, then NO technique will EVER work for you.

Do not worry about whether you hit someone with a "spear hand" or a "monkey paw". That is utter foolishness. While you are wondering which technique will work for THIS situation, he will be stepping on your knees and face and groin until you stop moving around and screaming so much.

Learn to club the living hell out of things like an ape, connect with it, and then begin worrying about "spearhands" and so forth.

[Tant01]

These comments are mostly B.S.

This is the sort of thing people who don't fight have to say about fighting.

"Dude, Do this!, then this! Then this!"

It doesn't work like that.

When a man attacks you with a knife, if you can't get out of there, best idea is to get BOTH OF YOUR HANDS on his knife arm, and let your defenses come from that.

As far as what kind of strike to use, when to use it, why you use it.. that's all unnecessary information. The information you are asking for can only be learned by wrestling and boxing resisting opponents.

You want to tell me that boxing has nothing to do with knives? That wrestling has nothing to do with knives? That's fine and good.

But I have both boxed, and done my share of kali/silat/etc... and from my experience, I would FAR rather face a silat man who has a knife than a skilled boxer that has a knife. Plain and simple.

.

Good for you my friend, I think you're a fool. First, lets say you get your hands on his knife hand... then what? Lock flow? anno ang kali? Oh, "let your defenses come from that..." Aikido master? And you still need to get past the blade to do that! WAY better-SAFER-for you to strike that knife hand/arm with ANY improvised weapon (read "defang") than attempt to grapple with a knife. Better also to pick up ANYTHING to use as a shield or barrier to deflect or absorb (block) the attacks that you can't evade. I like silat and if you ever had to fight a (real) "silat man" you might (not) survive. Do you play with karambits? You don't think a barrier is a good idea? Can't imagine trying to keep ANYTHING between yourself and a guy with a knife? Just crap... or a shield? more BS? Okay then...I've bled enough in my time and witnessed enough (real) violence to know who's dishing it out. I would rather not fight a man with a knife, be he boxer or Arnes Eskrimador, Kali man or Pentjacker of Silat. I would rather not face a man with a knife even if she was my wife...

Tanto-jutsu. The gentle way with a knife.

[guy incognito]

One Military combat instructor i once trained with told us "In a knife attack if your desparate you can actually grab hold of the blade" It's a last resort worth thinking of because there are no major blood vessels on the in side of the palm. If it could save your life it's worth a try. Would help if your not squeemish!

[bodhisattva]

Good for you my friend, I think you're a fool. First, lets say you get your hands on his knife hand... then what? Lock flow? anno ang kali? Oh, "let your defenses come from that..." Aikido master? And you still need to get past the blade to do that! WAY better-SAFER-for you to strike that knife hand/arm with ANY improvised weapon (read "defang") than attempt to grapple with a knife. Better also to pick up ANYTHING to use as a shield or barrier to deflect or absorb (block) the attacks that you can't evade. I like silat and if you ever had to fight a (real) "silat man" you might (not) survive. Do you play with karambits? You don't think a barrier is a good idea? Can't imagine trying to keep ANYTHING between yourself and a guy with a knife? Just crap... or a shield? more BS? Okay then...I've bled enough in my time and witnessed enough (real) violence to know who's dishing it out. I would rather not fight a man with a knife, be he boxer or Arnes Eskrimador, Kali man or Pentjacker of Silat. I would rather not face a man with a knife even if she was my wife...

Tanto-jutsu. The gentle way with a knife.

(shrug)
It's ok to call me names.

No, not aikido. I have never taken it, nor would I bother.

Combat athletics. Some wrestling and some boxing..if I had my choice I'd be doing some greco roman.. but I come from standard JKD..with Kali/Silat/Thai Boxing/Judo..

That's neither here nor there.

Yes. Both hands on the knife arm.

No not a lockflow. Locks aren't learned in lockflow anyway. Locks are learned against a resisting opponent. How could lockflow be an answer to a situation? It's a flow drill designed to show people how different locks can be linked.

Aikido? No. After you have his knife arm you can move into what the situation calls for.. Could be head butts. Could be an arm lock.. Could be a throw or a sweep..could be slamming him repeatedly into a wall. The key thing is to get TOTAL control of that damned knife.

And, as they teach everyone in any grappling class, there is a core concept of "Two on One". I guess you don't wrestle.

"Two on One" is a common concept within wrestling styles. It is the concept that a guy can't fight both of your arms with his one arm.

If you are facing a DETERMINED, STRONG, and even MILDLY SKILLED grown man with a REAL knife OUTSIDE of class, I hope you will remember the concept of "two on one".

I agree with you about not facing someone with a knife..Knives are ugly weapons, even the "winner" of a situation involving a knife usually comes out in horrible condition.. In response to your question: I think shields/barriers/etc. are a great idea..anything you can keep between yourself and the knife is a good idea.. but they are also only a stalling maneuver.. eventually a person will get stuck if they don't have some kind of back-up solution. What is that solution? A knockout punch? Probably not. Eventually, a person will have to close on the knife wielder, if that person can't escape the situation completely.

And that wais when I suggest: when it is time to close the distance, try to get both hands in control of the knife arm, not just one.

The men who stickfight full contact have proven that striking the weapon arm isn't always going to disarm a person. A determined fighter rarely drops the knife/stick when his arm/hand/wrist is struck. A determined fighter doesn't even drop it 50% of the time when it is struck. It is an excellent tactic, but cannot be fully depended on as a "best answer" for disarming purposes.
--
Grabbing the knife isn't so much a plan as a thing that happens instinctively at the last moment. It's a bad idea, with a mangled hand you can neither wrestle nor strike as effectively. Imagine wrestling a guy that only has one hand. You get the picture.