2 Lineage of JKD

[Hardcorelegend]

I think it's important to note that certification holds little value in JKD at a certain point. Ted Wong holds no higher rank in JKD because Bruce stopped issuing certificates at a certain point. James Lee and Taky had Jun Fan on their certificates because they pre date Inosanto as instructors. Bruce said in interviews that he kept them up to date in JKD. Also,Dan's JKD,Jun Fan,and Tao of Gung Fu certificates were all issued on the same day. I find that a bit "odd"...

The notion that Bruce left Dan "in charge" is silly,and there is no justifiable facts to back this up. Dan is the most famous JKD instrtructor because he siezed the initiative to become that. It is due to the misguided efforts of some of his students that many people identify Kali or Muay Thai as "JKD",when it clearly is not!

Lineage or not,not anything can be JKD. JKD has a set of theories and principles,as well as a set of basics that was important enough that they were taught to every student. If you're looking at an instructor remember,simplicity,directness,efficiency(non classical attitude).....

[thtackett]

I met Bruce once and saw him at Long Beach in 1967. Dan Inosanto is my JKD teacher. When I learned from him it was called Jeet Kune Do. Bruce was in Hong Kong. There were only 12 guys in the class. After Bruce passed away, I got a certificate from Dan that made me a senior 1st. It's the same as others you've seen except it has Jeet Kune Do on the top. When we started doing seminars Dan told Larry Hartsell and me that he promised Bruce that he wouldn't teach JKD to the general public, but that Larry and I didn't make that promise so we should teach it. At the summer camps Dan taught Kali, while Larry and I taught JKD, but any certificates handed out said JUn Fan on them. I also learned about 14 things from Bremer that I never saw anyone else do. He told me that he learned them from Bruce at his house on Sundays. I'm off to Australia in a few minutes. No JKD. Just a tour. Back on the 6th of June.

[Sensei Saki]

Where did you meet him?How do you like Dan Inosanto?
Life is full of surprises.When was this exactly?Where did they go?What was it like before Bruce passed away he or she got a certificate from Dan that made him or her a senior 1st ?Exactly the same?I am not sure I agree with your assumptions, .The summer camps Dan taught Kali while Larry and he or she taught JKD but any certificates handed out said JUn Fan on them is where it's at.Also? Does everyone learn about 14 things from Bremer that he or she never saw anyone else do?I get it. Dan Inosanto learned them from Bruce at his house on Sundays.Goodbye.Are you serious?
Not many people express themselves that way.
I don't know what that means.
The Program E chat robot can follow many things, like our discussion about on the 6th of June. Try being more or less specific.

[thtackett]

Dan is family. I consider him my friend. I don't understand anything else you said. What assumations? I was there. Were you?

[Tant01]

Thanks again!

I met Bruce once and saw him at Long Beach in 1967. Dan Inosanto is my JKD teacher. When I learned from him it was called Jeet Kune Do. Bruce was in Hong Kong. There were only 12 guys in the class. After Bruce passed away, I got a certificate from Dan that made me a senior 1st. It's the same as others you've seen except it has Jeet Kune Do on the top. When we started doing seminars Dan told Larry Hartsell and me that he promised Bruce that he wouldn't teach JKD to the general public, but that Larry and I didn't make that promise so we should teach it. At the summer camps Dan taught Kali, while Larry and I taught JKD, but any certificates handed out said JUn Fan on them. I also learned about 14 things from Bremer that I never saw anyone else do. He told me that he learned them from Bruce at his house on Sundays. I'm off to Australia in a few minutes. No JKD. Just a tour. Back on the 6th of June.

From the man himself. It must be amazing for you to see what has spawned from Jeet Kune Do! Thanks kindly Mr. Tackett and enjoy your trip!

Don't let that cyberbot Saki trick you into thinking it's a real person! It's Not. LOL

[Demi Barbito]

If anyone is training for self defense and they are doing anything that even remotly resembles what Bruce Lee was doing in 1973 they are not really training for self defense. That would be more like attending a Star Trek convention.

Modern combatives have far surpassed what BL was doing in 73.

BL was never doing the same thing for very long. In the early 60's it was one thing, late 60's different, early 70's different...

Who cares about what BL "was" doing anyway? Care about what you are doing now.

Demi

https://www.DemiBarbito.com

[gungfuhero]

I don't think that is entirely accurate. Somethings are timeless. A straight line is still the shortest distance between two points, a finger jab to the eye still sucks for the person receiving it and a kick to the stones doesn't feel any better now than it did in 1973. Footwork is still important and timing is still a crucial element. I don't think that the training in '73 had everything, but I think it is more of a question of adding new tactics rather than replacing old one's.

[ECS]

What "2" lineage'

To paraphrase Dan, "you cannot have Jeet Kune Do without Jun Fan."

Having trained with Tommy Gong (Ted Wong's Student), and with Steve Grody (Dan's student), I myself find the whole "2 lines to Bruce" argument a complete waste of time and energy.

Bruce taught certain techniques while he was alive, and called them both "Jun Fan" and "Jeet Kune Do". Further, he himself said "I'm sorry I ever coined the name Jeet Kune Do", but was non-plussed to move away from the name of Jun Fan Gung Fu.

I personally trust Dan's take on the argument, as I have no reason to distrust the man most closely associated with Bruce and his teachings.

Naysayers, have at me, but Dan was there, as was stated to me by Tommy Gong, and Dan himself had a bit to do with some of what developed in the "JKD" curriculum. One has only to research a little to find that after 3 or so months, Bruce had all but given the L.A. Chinatown school to Dan to run class, and therefor must have had a great deal of confidence in Dan's understanding of JKD.

When was this authority given to Ted? To Taky (outside of Jun Fan/modified Wing Chun)? To Jesse (never as I've been able to research)? To any one else?

In fact, outside of Dan, no-one was authorized by Bruce to teach JKD, and then Bruce passed away. Period. Nothing left to argue.

[Freedom]

I agree with ECS. But i also think that part of the problem is the idea of JKD as an art. It is NOT an art, but a series of concepts which the practitioner applies to his/her training in order to improve their MA skills. At my school we cross train MT, BJJ, FMA, savate etc but we still have JK/JKD classes where we learn about SDA, ABC, PIA, HIA, ABD. We work trapping drills. We work the Jab counter series, cross counter series, hook counter series, Jun Fan kickboxing set, ping choy gwa choy series etc. Those of us smart enough, then integrate these into our sparring along with the other tools from the other arts. I don't consider what i train to be JKD, i believe that what i study is martial art, not martial arts (plural) but martial art. I'd be happy to give up the name JKD, JFGF or whatever they are calling these days because it is just not nessesary. I also believe that many people say that they train JKD to show off, because it is linked to Bruce Lee.

[Tant01]

To paraphrase Dan, "you cannot have Jeet Kune Do without Jun Fan."

.....
When was this authority given to Ted? To Taky (outside of Jun Fan/modified Wing Chun)? To Jesse (never as I've been able to research)? To any one else?

In fact, outside of Dan, no-one was authorized to teach JKD, and then Bruce passed away. Period. Nothing left to argue.

Interesting.... However we have in the words of another gentleman (who was there also) the fact that Dan himself promised NOT to teach JF Jeet Kune Do. So there seems to be a paradox to the ammended stories as to who was authorized by BL to teach the Jeet Kune Do? No one. Dan was bound by his oath to Bruce not to teach certain things. But Mr. Hartsell and Mr. Tackett were authorized by Mr. Inosanto to teach it because THESE TWO gentlemen were not bound by Dan's promise to Bruce. Everyone else came after them...

[ECS]

Solid statement, however...

I may be wrong but my understanding was Dan promised not to teach certain material in Jun Fan while Bruce was alive. Once Bruce passed, at least in Dans opinion, he was no longer bound by this promise.

That aside, the discussion is over the seperate lineage of Jeet Kune Do, and you've actually helped validate my point. According to your post "Mr. Hartsell, and Mr. Tackett were authorized to teach by Dan...everyone else came after them."

Indeed! Dan has certified many instructors to teach: Hartsell, Tackett, Vunak, Knudds/Kent, Grody, Richardson, Clarke, Magda, Tucci, Balicki, Paulson, etc., etc. But that is still the only lineage, as Dan was the only one ever certified by Bruce as an instructor in Jeet Kune Do.

[fenwick99]

no one knows about benny v. Granmaster Holder?

I think that the whole JKDC vs. OJKD thing misses the point.
Bruce was continually evolving, yet he has kept certain principles, mainly from
Wing Chun and Taijiquan, inviolate.
Dan does the same thing: constant evolution, endless training in a myriad of systems, and reworking of his own teaching syllabus. But Dan continues to teach jun fan gung fu AS BRUCE TAUGHT IT. Dan is
doing what Bruce did, and that means more than all the politics and all the BS in magazines and on the internet could ever mean.
f course, it's a free country,and all the other direct students of BL and students of BL students can promote themselves and make money however they want.

[ECS]

Not an "Original VS. Concepts" discussion...

The basis of the discussion is the two 'Lineage" of JKD. Or more simply, "Bruce gave permission to these people to teach..." when in fact he only gave permission to one man to teach JKD. This is the basis of the current discussion.

The Original vs. Concepts argument is a by product of the current discussion, if really related at all, as again, it was Dan who first coined the term "JKD Concepts" all the while being the sole heir to Bruce's command of the teaching of his art, or "Original JKD."

[robertlee]

Bruce had no plans to die. He had not set no one person up as the leader of JKD to carry it forward after his death. Yes Dan did work with Bruce, Did have a certificate from Bruce. But Jimmy Lee. And Taiki Did to. Though thers were Jun Fan. They Had been kept updated on The JKD steps. Each person that trained with Bruce. Had a different step of learning. Dan had the world wanting to learn . And he did not want to be The key. But gave in And found the concept approach To offer Many people wanted to learn JKD had really no place to learn. Sought out others that had training. I would say If you trace back to Any of the three schools Seattle. Oakland. L A You have linage. If the person can help you improve. Then they At least exposed you to your needs. JKD is not one step. Each person finds the tools the mind set That helps them. !0,000 People has 10,000 JKD ways. BUT to start You have a method of learning. BUt the doing will be yours alone. Its just like a real fight NO 2 fights are the same. No 2 people are the same. So no ones personal JKD will be the same. Just the method used to learn may be the same or near the same. Dan is a great person to seek out. But there are others. After all its about You not a name.

[Freedom]

I really hate all this Original vs Concepts stuff and the 'He has/has not/isn't quite sure if he is certified BS. What i about to post will probably gain me a lot of flack, but i couldn't care less what my 'art' or 'style' is called. As i mentioned earlier, i would gladly give up the name JKD. I also belive that some people think that because BL did lots and lots of research to find his truth, that all the hard work has been done and they are now bound by Bruce and his teachings. Yes Bruce was very talented, but look what happened to him. He died. Young. That is probably not a result of his training, but apparently during his autopsy (sp?) his insides were f*cked, and he 'kicked himself to death'. He was one man with a good idea, and incomplete idea, but a good one none-the-less. Take influence from his example, do not embrace it as the God's honest truth.