a JKD'ers take on Muay Thai roundkick

[cfr]

Ive recently talked to a couple of JKD guys in regards to Muay Thai. Both of them said they see awesome atributes to the art, especially in they're training styles. But both claimed the same thing. That the Thai round kick is fairly easy to see coming and defend against. Now for the record, both have trained in Muay Thai, and also said they would certainly not want to be kicked by one. I'd never thought much about it before now. Whats your take on it? The two guys mentioned dont know each other or come from the same JKD linage, which made it all that more interesting.

Aside from the "they dont do groundwork" or "they dont do weapons", what other problems do you JKD'ers see with Muay Thai? Ive always been very impressed with it, just looking for your point of view.

[gregimotis]

I'd say (as a MT person) that the Muay Thai round kick is pretty easy to see coming and defend against. Just like the cross, it has to be set up or timed properly.

The MT round kick differs from a 'snap' round kick. The snap kick is probably faster, while the MT kick is much harder hitting - it's a power shot and is inherently slower (or more telegraphed) but when it hits, it can hurt bad.

I don't know how it works in the street but in the ring, you can't just throw random round kicks and expect good results - you've got to set it up or capitalize on thier mistake with proper timing.

[Sibilant]

I do Muay Thai as part of my JKD and it depends on the setup and the execution.

A common setup would be Jab-Cross-Rear hook (roundhouse) kick. Some even use this combo to block the line of site with the cross so your opponent doesn't see the kick coming.

The execution of Thai kicks vary from camp to camp, but some use a small stutter step. A similar thing happens when you do a switch and your front leg becomes your rear. The little stutter step (for lack of a better term) adds momentum and power but telegraphs the motion. Watch a fight with Peter Aerts. It's not uncommon for him to do it.

Please feel free to correct me. As with all that is JKD, try it out and decide for yourself. If it doesn't fit your style, throw it away.

[gregimotis]

For self defense application a problem with Muay Thai might be the lack of scenario training. By which I mean, we seldom have to deal with an opponent charging forward in a drunken rage, or other non-ring behavior. It's easy to think of an appropriate response, but saying you'd do (insert cool sounding counter) and actuallly having practiced it are two different things.

[Elfunko]

I think the kicks are pretty telegraphed also, but with speed and just as fast a recovery it isn't going to matter. Also, the low kicks, like to the opponents knee, quadracept, or calf aren't nearly as telegraphed I think (though perhaps easily distinguishable from a higher kick because of less body movement). Yet, if a MT guy could make his low kick appears the same as his mid-body or upper body kick, I think this would be a dangerous weapon in the ring (and on the street). I don't know if that would rob power from teh kick or what have you though. Anyone know if it's possible?

[Pukulan]

From my experience and sparring with MT guys, MT has different stance more spread apart with the legs leaving the groin exposed. Now of course in the ring a kick to grown is illegal. A JKD guy is more concerned with the street so our stance will be more from a traditional Bai Jong (sp) which covers the centerline more. A JKD guy will incorporate and should incorporate the same thai elbows, knees, and kicks.

[Elfunko]

And a JKD stance is just as mobile in every direction as a MT or boxing stance correct? What things have changed in JKD since Bruce wrote so muhc on teh subject? What I know of JKD is waht I've read and could have changed since...

[Halo]

i see them everytime it's just a "power move" you have to distract someone to use it properly i use cut kick to get round kicks off

[Halo]

From my experience and sparring with MT guys, MT has different stance more spread apart with the legs leaving the groin exposed.

i don't know about you and the people you train with but just switching to boxing stance will stop a groin hit

[Pukulan]

Of course you can but for some reason alot of MT guys dont.

[gregimotis]

Of course you can but for some reason alot of MT guys dont.

We stand squared up for a couple of reasons. As mentioned, we don't have to worry about groin shots (theoretically). We do have to be able to get the knees into the action in a hurry, and also block low kicks quickly. having the hips squared helps in those two cases.


Whether that stance exposes a Thai boxer to groin shots on 'the street' is somewhat irrelevant since we aren't training self-defense. I'll leave it to the JKD'ers to modify the stance for the application.

[kooky]

From a left lead, throw a jab-lead hook to the head combo....when the opponent covers on the hook,his weight will be on his lead leg...good window for the rear round.

if do correct....no can defense!

[Roland]

I haven't used the Thai kick in self-defense but I've talked to an experienced Muay Thai practitioner who used it twice in self-defense and witnessed an altercation in which it was used.

In all three cases, the person who was being kicked either didn't see it coming or fell victim to the "deer in the headlights" syndrome and ended up eating the kick.

1st "victim" got dropped by the kick and his only response was to crawl around on all fours shortly before the second kick hit him in the head and knocked him out.

2nd "victim" got knocked head over kiester by the kick and didn't get back up.

3rd "victim" got knocked down by the kick...and started to CRY (he was a teenager).

[Sensei Saki]

Me either.Where is that?
I lost my train of thought.When was this exactly?

[Elfunko]

I haven't used the Thai kick in self-defense but I've talked to an experienced Muay Thai practitioner who used it twice in self-defense and witnessed an altercation in which it was used.

In all three cases, the person who was being kicked either didn't see it coming or fell victim to the "deer in the headlights" syndrome and ended up eating the kick.

1st "victim" got dropped by the kick and his only response was to crawl around on all fours shortly before the second kick hit him in the head and knocked him out.

2nd "victim" got knocked head over kiester by the kick and didn't get back up.

3rd "victim" got knocked down by the kick...and started to CRY (he was a teenager).

I could see myself crying or cursing after taking a kick from some of those guys at my gym. Really I can't see myself not getting dropped by their kicks (that send the heavy bag flying, surely they'd send me to the moon).

Kick practiced over 5,000 times + conditioned shin + kenetic energy seems to = immense pain. Sounds practical to me.