JKD vs Krav Maga?

[Cyclops]

I have heard wing chun and KM are very similar. I cannot vouche for that myself since I have bever studied WC in fact unfortunately there are no schools in my area that teach it.

[SamuraiGuy]

Just my opinion on the whole Krav Maga = TMA thing you guys kinda got going.

I study Krav Maga and thats not what we do at all.

I dont pretend Krav Maga has original techniques, if anythings it uses, Muay Thai Striking, and BJJ ground fighting.

There are a few things thrown in, groin kicks, headbutts, hammer fists, eye gouges that you dont find in Muay Thai. But the way we throw knees, Muay Thai, our Round House kicks, Muay Thai, or elbows, well im not sure but I'd have a guess that its Muay Thai.

Our ground fighting is basically BJJ, with strikes... so when you get a guys back, instead of throwing on the RNC, you grab their hair and smash there face into the ground.

All the self defenses, such as getting out of headlocks, chokes, wrist grabs, knife attacks, gun attacks. are all pretty simple.

For instance, if someone pulls out a knife... run away.

Seems to be a good idea to me.

They do have things for defending a knife attack if thats not an option, but once again they are pretty simple.

Ill use a front choke for example here. Someone puts their hands around yoru throat and is chokign you, what are you gonna do.

Well your gonna grab their hands and try to pull them off, but if the person is stronger than you, thats not really gonna work now is it. So Krav Maga just builds on that, and has you "pluck" the hands off, so basically you pull them off really quickly, and it works. After you pull them off you just start hitting them, face, groin , knees anything.

Your hands are gonna go up there as your natural instinct, yoru not gonna do a moonsault flip kick, or poke the guy in the ribs with your death touch.

If Krav Maga claims to have invented the techniques, then they are lying.. but Ive never heard them do that, in fact they often let us know such as "this is the way Thai Kickboxers kick"

or something like that.

Just my thoughts.

[Hardball]

Just my opinion on the whole Krav Maga = TMA thing you guys kinda got going.

I study Krav Maga and thats not what we do at all.

I dont pretend Krav Maga has original techniques, if anythings it uses, Muay Thai Striking, and BJJ ground fighting.

There are a few things thrown in, groin kicks, headbutts, hammer fists, eye gouges that you dont find in Muay Thai. But the way we throw knees, Muay Thai, our Round House kicks, Muay Thai, or elbows, well im not sure but I'd have a guess that its Muay Thai.

Our ground fighting is basically BJJ, with strikes... so when you get a guys back, instead of throwing on the RNC, you grab their hair and smash there face into the ground.

All the self defenses, such as getting out of headlocks, chokes, wrist grabs, knife attacks, gun attacks. are all pretty simple.

For instance, if someone pulls out a knife... run away.

Seems to be a good idea to me.

They do have things for defending a knife attack if thats not an option, but once again they are pretty simple.

Ill use a front choke for example here. Someone puts their hands around yoru throat and is chokign you, what are you gonna do.

Well your gonna grab their hands and try to pull them off, but if the person is stronger than you, thats not really gonna work now is it. So Krav Maga just builds on that, and has you "pluck" the hands off, so basically you pull them off really quickly, and it works. After you pull them off you just start hitting them, face, groin , knees anything.

Your hands are gonna go up there as your natural instinct, yoru not gonna do a moonsault flip kick, or poke the guy in the ribs with your death touch.

If Krav Maga claims to have invented the techniques, then they are lying.. but Ive never heard them do that, in fact they often let us know such as "this is the way Thai Kickboxers kick"

or something like that.

Just my thoughts.

The articles I read promoting K.M. were in a lot of past issues of Black Belt magazine. (I actually still have the magazines dating back to the early 1990"s), They imply or lead you to believe that k.m. techniques are newly created and developed in Isreal during actual combat against Palestinine {sp}terrorist. I'm not joking, that's what they imply. If neccessary, I'll do the research and post exact issues and dates and authors. K.M. is a good art, but the consensus in this thread supports my assertion that the techniques can be found in many other systems, including systems that were here long before k.m. In the defend.net community, tae kwon do, wing chun, and shotokan get badly criticisized{sp} and disrespected. Why should k.m. be immune from critics? Or any other style for that matter. When we post to the internet, we are fair game for any and all knowledgable martial artist that may be reading.

[Hardball]

Just to balance things out...........you know, yin and yang. Most people in the know, consider JKD, to be Wing Chun mixed with Boxing, Wresting, and Judo.

[Hardball]

A good researcher can make the data say whatever he wants it to say but I will be unbiased and objective.

Hear is my bibliography:

Black Belt Magazine november 2003--Krav maga gun defenses

Black Belt Buyers guide year book 2000--Trend of the year, reality fighting, Krav maga, scars, ........................

Black Belt magazine july 2000 10 Krav Maga combat principles

Black belt magazine april 2005 Origins of military krav maga

inside kung fu magazine december 2004, Krav Maga, A terrorist Worst enemy.

[Hardball]

krav maga is the official defenstive tactics system of the Israeli defense force (IDF) Basic techniques are taught to all soldiers while more intensive training is given to elite units such as the counterterror units of YAMAM and Sayeret Matkal. All techniques follow the same approach and fulfill these or similare basic requirements:

1 easy to learn and easy to perform under stress

2 Relatively easy to remember with little re-training time
3 Applicable to variations in the attack so fewer techniques apply to more situations and

4 Intergrated movements in one area of the system must be similar movement in another area, so the thought process remains the same.

Inside Kung Fu 2004, Let the site be the judge, I'm remaining un biased and objective.

It really doesn't sound all that great to me...............Sorry tkd, shotokan and wing chun all get criticized why not k.m.

[Sensei Saki]

Tell me more about official defenstive tactics system of the Israeli defense force IDF Basic techniques are taught to all soldiers while more intensive training is given to elite units such as the counterterror units of YAMAM and Sayeret Matkal.
Not all of them?Can you please compare that to outside Kung Fu 2004 Let the site be the judge he or she is remaining un biased and objective?What does sound all that great to him or her ?There is no need to apologize.
I will mention that to my botmaster, .

[Hardball]

July 2000 Black Belt magazine 10 km combat principles


Develope in the early 1950's by a veteran soldier named Imi Lichtenfeld.............................................

10 principles:

strive for maximum versaltility

defend and attack simultaneously

never assume fight is over

train from positions of disadvantage

target vulnerable areas

let reality dictate your response

use intinctive movements

Exploit your environment

train to build sound tactics

Remember the most important rule--Don't get hurt.

These are the so called 10 principle of combat krav maga...........if you wanna read more you need the july 2000 black belt magazine.

Being objective, I am not going to diss k.m or try to sway the discussion.

[Hardball]

April 2005 black belt magazine................Origins of Military Krav Maga pg. 82 ByJim Wagner

"Just over a year ago the Israeli military invited me to tel aviv to teach a batch of new recruits. Besides training them, one of my primary purposes for wanting to travel to the middle east was to further research the origins of the israeli martial arts." "Over the years I'd been an avid student of krav maga, kapap, hisardut and lotar. Needless to say I accepted their offer."

Now, I am paraphrasing.............the big name in this article is Moni Aizik.. There is a pic of him in a white ghi training at the Kodokan dojo in Tokyo Japan in 1980. The article is very long but you can read it for yourself if you are interested in the military history of Isreal.

Being unbiased and objective, I am presenting you with this reference. Just like tkd, shotokan and wing chun we are all subject to crticisisim. {sp}

[Hardball]

November 2003 Black Belt magazine page 62 article entitled "The Ultimate Threat, Krav Maga's State of the Art Methods for Neutralizing Gun Attacks, By John Whitman

Principles of gun defense;

Redirect the line of fire

Control the weapon

Counterattack

Disarm

Use of the Gun

This article is a must read for all you cowboys; It tells you how not to get shot when you forget to holster your sidearm.......................

K.m. come on give me a break.

[Hardball]

I cannot loan you my magazines but if you leave your fax number, I'll be glad to fax you any of the above articles on k.m. Be objective, do the research, keep a cool head but don't tell me that Krav Maga is a new fool proof super bad ass martial art.

NOT

[Cain]

Well, krav maga the way i know it has imported quite a few techniques from different styles trying to make the best out of it, but the good thing with krav maga is the mindset and the way pragmatic thinking is prior to anything else. Things like using same tools to defend against different attacks, same tools to defend against armed and unarmed techniques, widely use of scenario practice, practive with key-chains, coins.. and the likes.

Anyhow: KM is very mych afected by the instructors where you are. Many of the instructors have long and diverse MA backgrounds and they ofcourse take part of this with them into KM too, affecting some techniques.

[Sensei Saki]

Well that's okay.
Where did krav maga the way he or she know it get imported quite a few techniques from different styles trying to make the best out of it but the good thing with krav maga is the mindset and the way pragmatic thinking is prior to anything else?Anything else?Is that a fact.Are they exactly the same?
Which ones?

[Cain]

and hardball, stating "Im objective" over and over again doesen't make it more true..

[aku aku]

K.M. is a good art, but the consensus in this thread supports my assertion that the techniques can be found in many other systems, including systems that were here long before k.m.

That doesn't really mean anything. The techniques in any system can be found in many other systems. I've seen the same arguement used against jkd by some kung fu guys who didn't really understand it.

In the defend.net community, tae kwon do, wing chun, and shotokan get badly criticisized{sp} and disrespected. Why should k.m. be immune from critics? Or any other style for that matter. When we post to the internet, we are fair game for any and all knowledgable martial artist that may be reading.

I agree that k.m. shouldn't be immune to criticism but why be disrespectful? If you have information about it please share but being disrespectful doesn't really tell us anything useful.