Hip rotation in right lead

[Kenpodog]

I believe that would be a pretty good summary of a few of the principles. However, in kempo you use your weak hand forward(for a right handed man, left hand would lead). Correct me if I'm incorrect.

That may or may not be true, what we do depends completely on our opponent(s) and the situation, however if I were able to get inside, I would continue press and check while I set up each consecutive strike until it was over (I hope).

Just a humble MA student trying to learn.

My previous post was not about Kenpo,
I'm trying to understand the "Hammer Principle" of JKD the only way I know how, by trying to break it down using terms and principles I'm familiar with.
I'm not sure if the "Hammer Principle" applies only to the initial releasing and thrusting of the arm or the complete example given (there is a heck of a lot happening in the example given).

Ironically, I'm a Lefty or at least I was before I started training, but that's a different thread!!

[Maidenfan]

The hammer principle mainly just applies to what the arm is doing at the beginning. You just anchor the elbow as you've said and allow gravity to begin the blow by pulling your arm down a few inches to less than an inch, depnds on the person, and I've read that you should allow gravity to shift your body slightly forward befor punching or advancing so that the push off doesn't go upwards at all. This seems to help a lot as I used to push off and there was always some delay and I would feel like a lot of energy was pushing me off. Then I began letting gravity pitch me forward(nearly no noticeable change when looking at someone doing it) and I can push off as hard and fast as I want and it all goes into my strikes.

[gungfuhero]

The hammer principle refers to the how the punch is initiated: from the elbow outward using gravity as the impetus. If you hold the elbow still and dropthe arm, it will move forward toward your target. This is very non-telegraphic and is only used for the first part of the extension which precedes the shoulder rotation in the punch.

[gungfuhero]

Yes, we do drop our body into the blow. The hand lands first on the target before your your lead foot contacts the ground so that your body weight adds to the force of the blow rather than just falling to the ground. The body mass is then projected forward by the spring of the rear foot. This is borrowed from Jack Dempsey's power punching concepts.

[JkD187]

it depends on wether u want a fast lead or a strong lead...for a fast lead punch or jab its not so much about the hip n waist rotation thats for power but just use a shoulder roll on the punch make sure u keep ur hands up and snap the punch...bring it bac i a staright line, not droppin ur hands n thas pretty much it

[Maidenfan]

it depends on wether u want a fast lead or a strong lead...for a fast lead punch or jab its not so much about the hip n waist rotation thats for power but just use a shoulder roll on the punch make sure u keep ur hands up and snap the punch...bring it bac i a staright line, not droppin ur hands n thas pretty much it

Either you've forgotten much about the simple physics of power/kinetic energy or you're using "fast" to mean "quick". HUGE difference, fast means(well, usually in the english language...) of a high velocity while quick means taking a low amount of time to initiate as in a punch. A powerful punch is fast and heavy, if your jab is faster than your straight, that straight will have to have a massive amount of weight put into it that your jab doesn't have just to play catch up. Remember the law of kinetic energy, ke=1/2m*v^2. Thus velocity is squared while mass is halved....

[JkD187]

whoa whoa whoa way 2 much scientific shyt for something that can be defined so easily simply put a fast punch isnt always hard espically with your lead...and why would u want a hard jab anyways jabs usually only have like 3 purposes: stalk an opponent,set up combos or to gauge the distance between u n ur opponet. besides if you over commit to a jab it leaves u vulnerable to counter shots or takedowns n if u dont believe me try it in sparring, thats the only way 2 find out.

[Maidenfan]

You've missed the whole point of my post... A fast punch has a high velocity- thus if 2 punches with the same mass or "weight" behind them and one of them moves at 2x the speed of the other, the faster one has 4x the power or kinetic energy... this difference in power grows exponentially as we increase speed. The jab does not have a high velocity in relation to heavy punches. It is thus quick, not fast. It only takes a small amount of time to throw since it is "ballistic" and is only tossed out.
Another point that you don't seem to understand; the lead straight punch is a VERY powerful punch, it has a very high velocity and a large percentage of bodyweight behind it, as much as you can put behind it. Sorry about the science but if I need to make a point(and in this case, I do) it gets a bit technical.
My number one rule of thumb is just to remember and apply the equation and laws of kinetic energy. Power is important(work over time or m*d/t) but kinetic energy is the most important factor in striking(the reason that a bullet can hit a lot harder than most people fists, a tiny piece of metal moving at 1000m/s tends to hurt a lot)

[JkD187]

its alright man...im not into the whole extreme science behind a technique all i worry about is 2 things: can i make my technique land and can i make it hurt and the only way to find out is 2 spar.Sorry if this post didnt answer your questions or w.e but i think you should just work on proper body mechanics for your techniques and try them against a resisting opponet.No matter what art or arts you study there is a most effective way to throw a jab or lead or w.e u wanna call it and its found in western boxing. Many arts have many differnt punches but its been proven boxing punches are most effective...not to say the others arts are not its just boxing has a higher chance of working.In short dont worry about the termonology of a technique but rather making that technique work on a resisting opponent.

[Maidenfan]

No, you are simply mistaken. A test was made while Bruce was alive and it stated that JKD punches were the most effective in that they were the quickest to deliver and the most destructive. A lead straight punch is NOT A JAB!

[JkD187]

i dont care about a test that was made like 30 years ago and im not debating on which is beter this or that im simply stating how 2 perform a jab with your foward hand....if u wanna throw a lead punch or w.e the hell u call it be my guest...o n what do u mean by jkd "punches" jkd is not a style its a philophsy and nothing more you must be refering to jun fan which was what bruce wanted eveyone to learn before they adopted the jkd philophsy jun fan was what works in a fight, it was the delivery system u needed to know before moving on to incorperate other arts n techniques n thats stated from dan inosanto himself. And by the way that was in the 1960's and 70's its the year 2005 things change and times evolve so get with the program if your stand up isnt based on some type of boxing style wether it be boxing muay thai savate or w.e then ur not much of a threat on the feet and thats a fact.

[robertlee]

Jun fan was the first step. JKD the second. JKD had its owns set of development. Wing chun boxing and fenceing As its base line development. SO in a way JKD is a style BUt not of style. meaning as you the person deveolps You are your own JKD person. free to apply what does work for you. Ring the jab works very well to a point in standup. On the streets it can work But streets are different. Anything can happen. A jab is a strong key tool to develop. BUT the JKD lead is somewhat different then a jab. Delivery. Is set for a harder strike. But your points are valid. Good boxing type hands have a place of use. And I think Bruce did a decent job developing a blend of boxing into the Into the wing chun base. But keeping the delivery in text of strong side forward gung fu based. Its not all about JKD As any solid defence training standup and ground. But JKD will have its training methods then the persons JKD delivery method.

[JkD187]

i agree with you on mostly everything, people just need to realize its about what you can do not whats beter this or that its all about enhancing performance, good post my friend.

[Maidenfan]

Well, Bruce used the term JKD punches to mean the punches that he incorporated in his own JKD, Jun Fan JKD(Jun Fan is his name in chinese...). What he was talking about though, was the boxer's straight vs. the JFJKD straight, also included in the test was the classic karate punch(from rear fist). The boxer's straight is MUCH less efficient than the JKD straight and doesn't have the velocity of JKD's straight. This means a JKD practicioner is a superior fighter to a boxer of equal attributes and skill. This point is multiplied when you consider that JKD incorporates plenty of kicking. When you consider defense boxing is horrible, simply putting your arms up and waiting or evading. JKD uses parrys(sp?), guards, ripostes, evasion, etc. Boxing is great and all but JKD is much more complete and thorough. Boxing is more specialized as boxing's straight is not meant to be a REAL heavy blow, rather boxing uses lighter punches strung together in combos to set up a hook(in boxing the hook is an extremely heavy and powerful punch).

[JkD187]

i realize that your an org jkd guy so your opinion is valid within org jkd. if you want to just work on that be my guest everybody has their own thing they do but my friend like i said before that was 1960 and its now 2005 boxing has changed jkd has changed the world has changed things are different now.besides i could care less what tests bruce lee did for this and that man its a stupid argument who cares?, you should be worried about how to improve your skill not trying to teach me a history lesson.