Hip rotation in right lead

[gungfuhero]

One thing to remember about evolution is that it requires environmental pressure(s). Some species have diverged greatly out of the necessity to adapt. Others have changed relatively little over eons. Think of sharks. They have not changed much in several milenia. I think this is also true of the straight lead punch. Considering its speed, power and non-telegraphic quality, there doesn't seem to be pressure to change. In contrast, the JKD grappling program has needed to adapt to modern pressures IMHO. The important part is that the perpetuation of a change is not arbitrary, but useful. Otherwise we are just changing for the sake of change and possibly losing a useful characteristic such as if a shark decided to express itself by losing its gills. I think this is a widespread problem in JKDC circles, wanting something new and different purely because it is new and different and forgetting about the value of the legacy JKD has inherited.

On a side note, read the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and count the references to JKD methods of punching, footwork, etc. as well as those where JKD is presented as not being a method. A less dualistic interpretation mediates the original vs. concepts debate pretty well.

[robertlee]

Well, Bruce used the term JKD punches to mean the punches that he incorporated in his own JKD, Jun Fan JKD(Jun Fan is his name in chinese...). What he was talking about though, was the boxer's straight vs. the JFJKD straight, also included in the test was the classic karate punch(from rear fist). The boxer's straight is MUCH less efficient than the JKD straight and doesn't have the velocity of JKD's straight. This means a JKD practicioner is a superior fighter to a boxer of equal attributes and skill. This point is multiplied when you consider that JKD incorporates plenty of kicking. When you consider defense boxing is horrible, simply putting your arms up and waiting or evading. JKD uses parrys(sp?), guards, ripostes, evasion, etc. Boxing is great and all but JKD is much more complete and thorough. Boxing is more specialized as boxing's straight is not meant to be a REAL heavy blow, rather boxing uses lighter punches strung together in combos to set up a hook(in boxing the hook is an extremely heavy and powerful punch).

If you were to box a boxer one that can use there skill. You would see a very well prepared fighter. NOw this is with out the kicks. But in the ring a boxer would still have a chance aginst someone kicking. As the gap would closed taking alot from the range. Anybody that
says boxing is crap. I would say get in the ring. Boxers have very good hands. JKD is set for hit hit hit. Parry trap hit hit hit. Parries traps are for deflection to hit remove to hit. If you do not need them then you just hit. No matter who a person is. THey can be hit. How often how hard depends on skill level. And the day. OJKD I believe deserves its place for learning. The method. And passing it forward Personal JKD is the person that can make it functional for there self. EACH JKD person will do different at each time of responce. Have there tool set. That works for them. Some better then others. Depends on devotion to doing. Making things work and work better. The lead has power . The jab finds distances upsets timing Sets up combos. Stops entries. And a stiff jab blinds the next punch thats on its way. A person that parries more then hitting or traps more then hitting will not End the fight as often. Remember to intercept is with your own kicks strikes ect. Fast gun concept hit first. JKD is after all A path then from there Freedom from bound method. Its like You go to school learn a trade. Then your in the job market. There you gain your experiance. Fighting you learn the hows and whats. Test them by fighting. Desolve the unnessasary. Keep the rest.

[Maidenfan]

gungfuhero-while you may have a point, where does stick fighting(from concepts) come in? I've never been in a street fight where I've had kali/escrima/whatever sticks....
r.lee-a JKD man and a boxer of equal skill, who would win? I will not answer that as there simply is no correct solution. However, I will leave you with my best speculation. My money would be on the JKD man...

[robertlee]

JKD or boxing depends on who is better that day. A highly skilled boxer Is very good. So the day would be what I would say.

[gungfuhero]

I have been told that many, if not most, assaults involve a weapon. Tire irons, pool cues, bottles, knives, etc. come to mind as well as other objects that might be used in the heat of violence. I think that there certainly is a place for weapons in martial arts training, and FMA can give you realistic options, training time and the ablility to use different objects as weapons if trained propperly. I have also had good experiences with western fencing and Krabi Krabong. I would say that it is more important to have good timing with a weapon, including intercepting ability, rather than experience in a particular method such as kali or whatever. Kali just happens to address concepts such as "defanging the snake," range, rhythm etc. more thoroughly than most other arts. I do however think that fencing can add a lot to kali training as far as efficiency and timing.

[Ern-Dog]

gungfuhero-while you may have a point, where does stick fighting(from concepts) come in? I've never been in a street fight where I've had kali/escrima/whatever sticks....

You have been misinformed....

Guro Inosanto does NOT teach the FMA as part of the Jun Fan Gung Fu/JKD concepts material. He teaches the FMA separately. If a certain individual CHOOSES to use the FMA in their personal expression of JKD then that is their choice.

When he does a seminar he almost always asks the host what material they want to see covered for their seminar. Sometimes they want to concentrate on the FMA, sometimes they just want to see Maphilindo Silat, and sometimes they just want to see a combination. Just because the man teaches several different arts at a seminar do not think that he is packaging them together as "JKD".

He freely gives out the information. Then he lets you decide how you want to incorporate that information into your JKD........

But I digress..... you don't want to learn your JKD, do you??

You want to learn Bruce Lee's JKD.

[Maidenfan]

Ern-Dog: I don't want to learn Bruce Lee's JKD... I want to use it as a base, study it, improve upon it(in my own, scientific way), and apply it.
Mike Brewer: You have a great point and all but I'd rather have an emphasis on the very basics of OJKD as the basics are simple and critical. It is my FIRM belief that the man who has a stronger grasp of the basics will defeat the man who has the "fancier" techniques in his arsenal or the broader knowledge. While I would later, much later, like to expand upon what Bruce was using, I first want to build a strong base, hack away the unessentials. In my mind, at the current time period, much of JKDC or what Inosanto teaches is unessential to me
*I am NOT trying to resurrect this thread, as good of an idea as I feel it is, rather I haven't been checking this site as often as I'd like to have been. I have been a little preoccupied the last week or so. Please reply with your own thoughts, not flames.

[Maidenfan]

As nice as that sounds, isn't Inosanto teaching a class? In a class doesn't everyone learn things along the same lines?(everyone does the technique the instructor asks them to do, whether properly or otherwise) Thus if one learned JKDC wouldn't they be learning kali and what not?
Around where I live and for my purposes, weapons are just not very common. I've never come up against anything more than a small pocket knife, most fights I get in(I try to avoid as much as possible, people find me a nice target as I am small... too bad they've never seen me fight) are simply hand to hand or perhaps someone has a roll of quarters(i get in fight with this "gang" of fat, short retards)

[gungfuhero]

Please read this carefully: When Sifu Inosanto teachers JKD, he does NOT teach Kali, Muay Thai or anything else. He offers his students many different arts and systems which are taught separately. At his academy there are many classes devoted to different arts, the majority of which feature a single art although some mix systems (though these classes are NOT called JKD but Phase or Mixed Martial Arts). Sifu Inosanto's students can pick which classes they go to.

[Freedom]

From my experience, Inosanto's lineage will make you a more rounded fighter with stand-up, ground, weapon, mass attack situations etc. Seriously Maidenfan, don't knock Inosanto until you've tried his methods.