F I S T

[bbbb]

the answer...

What do you believe? What is your philosophy?..

It is better to use the first two big knuckes when punching or use the big middle knuckle and the two smaller ones?

to the second question would be the palm strike.

The first question would depend on what you feel more comfortable with.

I was wondering if the impact would be felt deeper from the palm strike as it is in boxing w/ glove's...?!? Or is the advantage of the palm strike simply to be able to keep pummeling.

also- the palm strike can then be used as a grab to follow up with a reinforced strike(in relation to the second question). e.g. Bil Sao (Spear Hand)

[bbbb]

also...

What is the ridge hand?

[Brokenmace]

I was wondering if the impact would be felt deeper from the palm strike as it is in boxing w/ glove's...?!? Or is the advantage of the palm strike simply to be able to keep pummeling.

They will both hurt a lot. You lose roughly 2 1/2" on a palm strike vs. a punch, but you gain the ability to repeatedly savage your foe with little risk of injuring your weapon. You will not end up with a broken hand, and even if you overflex your wrist by chance, you will probably still be able to attack with the hand.

Also, if you are in a life or death situation, jamming the septum into your enemy's brain is quite difficult to do with a traditional punch. Doing so with a palm is easier than punching the throat, since the throat is usually well-protected even by inexperienced boxers.

If you miss the jaw with your fist and connect on the opponent's cranium (above the ear), you may be in trouble. If you miss with a palm and hit the cranium, you won't notice. I didn't.

What is the ridge hand?

Form the hand like you will fingerjab the eye, only curl your thumb tighter toward your palm. You attack with the area of the hand that is on the thumb-side at your first knuckle. This can hurt your opponent a lot, but you risk damaging your thumb and pointer finger if you do it wrong. I often cross my pointer finger under my middle finger when striking like this, in order to keep my foreknuckles from grinding during a poor impact.

You mostly use hooking and overhand motions to generate power with this strike.

This strike requires more conditioning than a palm strike, but less than for a punch, for many people (although bodytypes vary).

[BoarSpear]

Also, if you are in a life or death situation, jamming the septum into your enemy's brain is quite difficult to do with a traditional punch. Doing so with a palm is easier than punching the throat, since the throat is usually well-protected even by inexperienced boxers.

please find me one case where this was done....Palm strikes have many uses, driving peoples septums into their brain isnt one of them. thats gotta be the oldest martial myth in the world...the second is "registered deadly hands and feet"

[Brokenmace]

Funny that you say that:

1) That I cannot provide video evidence of someone dropping an elephant from a C-130 at 30,000 feet onto a man's house is not evidence that it can't happen. So a better question isn't to ask if it's ever happened, but how could it happen. Or even better, why it would matter. That, as it turns out, is more interesting than if it can be done.

2) If the septum ended up in the braincase, the force that did that would almost certainly cause massive trauma to the neck as well (harsh whiplash). in addition, the septum is cartilage, so it would not kill in and of itself, but the area that it would be deposited in controls higher brain function. Such damage will not kill you immediately, but you can't fight without higher brain function, and the trauma that results would keep you from fighting even if higher brain functions were not impaired. Also, and most importantly, any strike powerful enough to force the septum into the braincase would have to go through bone. There are two small holes the septum could pass through, but the chances of you doing that as opposed to just crushing bone are remote. Crushing facial bone is a fight-ender, no matter where the septum ends up.

3) I've seen massive facial bone trauma up close and personal. The trauma I witnessed was not from a car accident, but from human power. You do not fight with massive facial bone trauma. You do, however, go to the hospital, if you are lucky...

[BoarSpear]

Funny that you say that:

1) That I cannot provide video evidence of someone dropping an elephant from a C-130 at 30,000 feet onto a man's house is not evidence that it can't happen. So a better question isn't to ask if it's ever happened, but how could it happen. Or even better, why it would matter. That, as it turns out, is more interesting than if it can be done.

2) If the septum ended up in the braincase, the force that did that would almost certainly cause massive trauma to the neck as well (harsh whiplash). in addition, the septum is cartilage, so it would not kill in and of itself, but the area that it would be deposited in controls higher brain function. Such damage will not kill you immediately, but you can't fight without higher brain function, and the trauma that results would keep you from fighting even if higher brain functions were not impaired. Also, and most importantly, any strike powerful enough to force the septum into the braincase would have to go through bone. There are two small holes the septum could pass through, but the chances of you doing that as opposed to just crushing bone are remote. Crushing facial bone is a fight-ender, no matter where the septum ends up.

3) I've seen massive facial bone trauma up close and personal. The trauma I witnessed was not from a car accident, but from human power. You do not fight with massive facial bone trauma. You do, however, go to the hospital, if you are lucky...

look i dont care if you can tap dance...you made a stupid statement you got out of some dumbass adventure novel now you wanna sound all cool when you try to bush-cheney your way out of it...yes you can smash someones nose...no you cant kill them by driving it into their brain

[Brokenmace]

I don't recall saying it would kill them. I wonder why that would be?

Oh, that's right. I didn't.


Anyway, my tapdancing is sexier than Cheney's. My footwork could give Condi Rice a hardon.

[Brokenmace]

I thought this was interesting.

Stopping the Heart

Note this passage: "A" drives both hands straightforward in nearly simultaneous bilateral palm heel/thumb knuckle strikes.

I don't know if any of this works, nor have I studied Karate of any flavor (except TKD, which was bastardized into Karate in WWII). I never really liked double-hand strikes, but they can make cruel finishers, I suppose.

[blitz]

I remember some guy cutting someones tongue from a palm to the chin, the other guy had his tongue sticking out :S

And I heard about the palm to the nose going through the brain heh but I've never seen it happen.

[JAdams]

Three knuckle blows.

I would say it does depend on how you punch, if you punch with a horizontal fist it is better off to hit with your two big knuckles. But I consider the vertical fist and three knuckle landing the boxers punch. If you can land it on three knuckles right, Jack Dempsey aimed with his ring finger knuckle, he used a verticle fist and landed his blows on the pinky, ring, and middle finger knuckles. If you execute it right and condition your hands you have a slim chance of hurting your hand bashing someones face up. It lands over a greater surface and there is less resistance on the top of the forearm, therefore less resistance = more power = more effective punching. But the two knuckle punch is more jagged, like an elbow, and is therefore more likely to split your opponents eye brow. I will always prefer the three knuckle landing because that is how most professional american style boxers hit, and I don't think anyone can argue that American Boxing does have the most powerful punches!

[Hardball]

and I don't think anyone can argue that American Boxing does have the most powerful punches!

I would have to qualify that and say American Boxing has the most powerful gloved punch. Bareknuckle is a different ballgame. First two knuckles for me. Middle knuckle and first knuckle.

[JAdams]

Most martial arts are way bigger on hand conditioning, but I can say for the street fighting gloveless boxer, their hands can be trained to hit just as well 3 knuckle style. So that would make it, if you train your 3 knuckle punch gloveless they can take just as much damage as a two knuckle punch, and deliver as much or even more. It depends where you are hitting really, and what works for you.

[EmptyneSs]

I would say it does depend on how you punch, if you punch with a horizontal fist it is better off to hit with your two big knuckles. But I consider the vertical fist and three knuckle landing the boxers punch. If you can land it on three knuckles right, Jack Dempsey aimed with his ring finger knuckle, he used a verticle fist and landed his blows on the pinky, ring, and middle finger knuckles. If you execute it right and condition your hands you have a slim chance of hurting your hand bashing someones face up. It lands over a greater surface and there is less resistance on the top of the forearm, therefore less resistance = more power = more effective punching. But the two knuckle punch is more jagged, like an elbow, and is therefore more likely to split your opponents eye brow. I will always prefer the three knuckle landing because that is how most professional american style boxers hit, and I don't think anyone can argue that American Boxing does have the most powerful punches!

american boxers hit with the 2 first knuckles, not the last 3.

[JAdams]

american boxers hit with the 2 first knuckles, not the last 3.

Nay. Maybe modern boxers I dunno. But the real boxers (Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier, etc....) All preached the three knuckle landing. However that doesn't apply to uppercuts and shovels etc, but it does apply to the left jab and the straight right, several others aswell. But also way back when boxing matches often came down to an endurance test because there fists were hurt so bad. If they had punched with only two knuckles with that kind of power they would have broke them. Now there are martial artists that have thick scarred first two knuckles that could land a blow like that on them and they wont break. Like I said it really depends on the person, if you train your two knuckles to take a hit, then your not going to hit with the three. But if you train with the three then hit with them. I guess what it comes down to is an opinion, its really based on an individual basis, I prefer the three knuckle punch. But I know many people that can hit just as hard or harder with two knuckles and it wont cause them much damage. The three knuckle punch just feels more natural to me, I dont like the twisting resistance feeling on the top of my forearm with a horizontal punch. and if you punch vertically your three knuckles are a lot better aligned than the two. So its pretty simple, if you punch horizontal you will get more power with the two knuckle strike, if you punch vertical you will get more power on the three. I just prefer the vertical, as did all the real boxers in the day. Get Championship Streetfighting by Ned Beumont, he is very biased against martial arts, he prefers boxing. BUT There are many sections of the book called "lessons from the champs" Where he quotes the real pros on their training tactics, I have yet to see an old school boxer throw a jab or straight right horizontally, and they hit a hell of a lot harder than these weak ass "boxers" of today. The skill in boxing has certainly declined over the years, bare in mind it did used to be a bare knuckle sport. Commercializing it made it gay, kind of like a thread I read about the UFC changing.

[georgie]

Nay. Maybe modern boxers I dunno. But the real boxers (Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier, etc....) All preached the three knuckle landing. However that doesn't apply to uppercuts and shovels etc, but it does apply to the left jab and the straight right, several others aswell. But also way back when boxing matches often came down to an endurance test because there fists were hurt so bad. If they had punched with only two knuckles with that kind of power they would have broke them. Now there are martial artists that have thick scarred first two knuckles that could land a blow like that on them and they wont break. Like I said it really depends on the person, if you train your two knuckles to take a hit, then your not going to hit with the three. But if you train with the three then hit with them. I guess what it comes down to is an opinion, its really based on an individual basis, I prefer the three knuckle punch. But I know many people that can hit just as hard or harder with two knuckles and it wont cause them much damage. The three knuckle punch just feels more natural to me, I dont like the twisting resistance feeling on the top of my forearm with a horizontal punch. and if you punch vertically your three knuckles are a lot better aligned than the two. So its pretty simple, if you punch horizontal you will get more power with the two knuckle strike, if you punch vertical you will get more power on the three. I just prefer the vertical, as did all the real boxers in the day. Get Championship Streetfighting by Ned Beumont, he is very biased against martial arts, he prefers boxing. BUT There are many sections of the book called "lessons from the champs" Where he quotes the real pros on their training tactics, I have yet to see an old school boxer throw a jab or straight right horizontally, and they hit a hell of a lot harder than these weak ass "boxers" of today. The skill in boxing has certainly declined over the years, bare in mind it did used to be a bare knuckle sport. Commercializing it made it gay, kind of like a thread I read about the UFC changing.

i agree completely with this....lets look at who fought bare knuckle the most.....BARE KNUCKLE BOXERS.......DONT TAKE ROCKET SCIENCE TO FIGURE THAT OUT....and they had the toughest knuckles and NO GLOVES.....and how did they punch?....vertical fist and three knuckle landing....to land a flat punch with the first 2 knuckles you have to bend the wrist slightly...bad right off the get go....the wrist is the weakest link between your fist and your power......second draw a straight line down the center of your arm with your wrist STRAIGHT.......thats the aiming knuckle or 3rd finger and the "powerline" for your torque.......bare knuckle boxers ....the phrase says it all.....just my 2 cents