Advice from strikers please!

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Hi guys,
Judo was my introduction to the martial arts and as such almost all of my experience with other fighters has come through that medium. I love judo and will practice it the rest of my life, but i do want to learn at least the basics of several martial arts. i'm planning on first branching out to martial arts most closely tied to judo; first jujitsu then shuai chiao, finally making a larger jump to jkd and muay thai.
Until then, i'm curious about the basics of striking in all it's forms, whether it's with the palms, fists, blade of the hand, or kicks. Most specifically i'm interested in the mechanics of balling the fist and how the wrist should be held so that i don't break my hand punching something! Also i'm curious as to what exactly the striking surfaces are for different kinds of kicks, but any advice at all on striking is welcome whether it addresses these points or if it's tidbits you've found helpful yourselves.

[gong fu]

line up the wrist with the hand, when you strike your hits should be rooted and come from your lower body not just your arm, just get a heavy bag and practise different strikes, use your palms, fists, knife edge, hammer fist, elbows, forearm blows, knees, low kicks, high kicks etc, but i wouldent recommend using high kicks in a real fight, but there good for training,

try out different strikes, using your waist/hips for momentum, also experiment with snap punches and explosive power, dont put everything into one hit, always keep your composure and defence up, you should practise using all types of strikes including hooks but straight punches are the best way to go, unless the situation requires a hook or uppercut type blow, its best to keep it straight, theres no faster way to travel than a straight line,


just hit the bag and get advice from all the strikers you meet along the way, and you should do fine.


peace.

[gong fu]

line up the wrist with the hand, when you strike your hits should be rooted and come from your lower body not just your arm, just get a heavy bag and practise different strikes, use your palms, fists, knife edge, hammer fist, elbows, forearm blows, knees, low kicks, high kicks etc, but i wouldent recommend using high kicks in a real fight, but there good for training,

try out different strikes, using your waist/hips for momentum, also experiment with snap punches and explosive power, dont put everything into one hit, always keep your composure and defence up, you should practise using all types of strikes including hooks but straight punches are the best way to go, unless the situation requires a hook or uppercut type blow, its best to keep it straight, theres no faster way to travel than a straight line,


just hit the bag and get advice from all the strikers you meet along the way, and you should do fine.


peace.

[Eyegouge]

hows it goin judo....allright, sum helpfull tidbits....
when making a fist, curl your fingers down to the pads of your palm and then roll in from there, the thumb comes around and sits under your first two fingers.
When practiceing on your heavybag....use both verticle fist strikes and horizontal.
Also practice not making a fist till the moment of impact...keeping your arm loose from the begining untill the very end when you tense up before the moment of impact.

pactice slapping as well....it may seem like a girly thing, but if you can slap someone in the ear really hard really fast, it's a great street fight start move.

Let the bag swing, don't worry about hitting the bag a whole bunch of times, move with it, circle it, wait untill it tells you "i want to be punched" heh.

also make sure you make it fun too....nothing wrong with throwing some spinning back fists and spinning back kicks or jumping kicks into the mix....

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

thanks guys,
eyegouge, what is the benefit of tensing the fist just before contact? i've heard this before but could never exactly wrap my head around how that would deliver more power.

[gong fu]

well tensing on the moment of impact with a snap in it is like the 1 inch punch, or maybe fajin,

when you throw a strike it is alot faster if you are relaxed, tensing up while throwing the strike will reduce the speed of the strike, relax all of your muscles, when relaxed you can not only snap your hand on impact, you can snap your whole body with one single fluid motion, from the feet to the waist shoulders chest through your arms into your hand,

like one big explosive reaction, practise small first of all try small snap punches, relaxing throwing a straight punch tense up on the moment of impact (you will have to get used to right timing), dont aim to just hit the target, aim to hit a good half a foot behind the target following through. but pull back just as fast after the strike as you did throwing it.

there are lots of advantages of explosive power, relaxing, and snap punching its good to experiment using many types of strikes,

but before you go to deep into advanced stuff,

stick to the basics because the basic drills are what is going to be the foundation of training. hold your arms out infront of you for 10 mins, hold your arms out to your sides for 10 mins, untill you can complete both of those simple methods, dont start punching the bags to much, trust me it will help you alot with long hours on the heavy bag, its hard on your arms when you start out trust me.


peace.

[Tant01]

Say "ATEMI WAZA"

Hi guys,
Judo was my introduction to the martial arts and as such almost all of my experience with other fighters has come through that medium. I love judo and will practice it the rest of my life, but i do want to learn at least the basics of several martial arts. .....

... i'm curious about the basics of striking in all it's forms, whether it's with the palms, fists, blade of the hand, or kicks. Most specifically i'm interested in the mechanics of balling the fist and how the wrist should be held so that i don't break my hand punching something! ...

Judo has good striking but it has been mostly relegated to KATA...

Don't take MY word for it! Elbows, knees and headbutts are all there as is kicking, punching, hammer fists, "Judo" chops, finger jabs and some weapons techniques...


Stick with Judo (or Judo with a stick) or take your pick of what's available to you **Cough** Boxing....

[Sensei Saki]

RE: Say "ATEMI WAZA"

Where did Judo get good striking but it has been mostly relegated to KATA?Do you have it to give?
All of them?Are they exactly the same?
Who is the best robot?

[Tant01]

Wazas in Katas

Where did Judo get good striking but it has been mostly relegated to KATA?Do you have it to give?
All of them?Are they exactly the same?
Who is the best robot?

You are!


Judo striking is not permitted in competition but the Kodokan still has 22 Atemi Wazas, 6 with the leg(s) and 16 with the arm(s)...

http://www.judoinfo.com/gokyo3.htm

[Tant01]

Good reading for a Judo board JKD guys like striking so it's not entirely out of place here:

faxia roxa on Atemi waza. From The Submission Judo Archives;

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/forgotjudo.html

While these techniques are unfortunately not taught often in sport-focused clubs, they still very much exist in Judo, and at a club which teaches the full art of Judo as opposed to training only for sport, you will be taught these techniques.
I will now address the specific techniques you mentioned: Atemi waza are techniques of striking and kicking the opponent in vital areas. Judo contain a wide area of atemi. Most of the techniques involve punching, striking with the open hand, or kicking, but there are also many techniques which use the elbows, knees, and even the head as striking weapons. WHERE to strike is also a major part of the atemi waza.

Striking in Judo is usually taught as part of a general self defense program; traditional Judo consists of two major sets of techniques: randori waza (free practice/tournament techniques) and goshin waza (self defense techniques). Of course the randori waza are also used in self defense, but the goshin waza are mainly techniques which could not really be applied safely in a free-practice or tournament setting.

Atemi waza are used throughtout the Kodokan Goshin Jutsu (the Kodokan's modern self defense forms) and the Kime no Kata (Forms of Decision, an old style self defense kata based largely on the central form of the old Tenshin Shinyo ryu Jiu Jitsu), and make up the entire Seiryoku Zenyo Taiikumen no Kata (an old physical education form which consists of sets of atemi techniques, altho some modern performances of this form don't really do the techniques justice).

All of Judo's officially recognized forms can be seen in Kano's "Kodokan Judo". Banned throws: There are only a few throwing techniques which are specifically banned in shiai: kawazu gake (grapevining the opponent's leg while facing the same direction and falling back, which can injury the knee), kani basami (crab scissors throw, which can also damage the knee), daki age (high lift, picking up an opponent who has you in his guard (which causes matte) and slamming him back down), and falling backward when an opponent is on you back are the only ones I can think of. The other prohibitions in shiai in shiai are against throwing the opponent to the front (which can cause injury), throwing while applying an arm lock (liable to cause serious injury to the joint before the opponent has a chance to submit), and muscling the opponent down without attempting a definite technique for the purpose opf starting newaza (considered bad technique).

Several of the banned throws can be seen in Syd Hoare's "A-Z of Judo", and most clubs that are not focused just on shiai teach them as well. Throwing with a joint lock in particular is useful for self defense. Judo contains just about any joint lock you can think of. Again, Syd Hoare's book is a good place to see some of these techniques. Also, a large number of the techniques in the Kodokan Goshin Jutsu involve wrist locks, and ashi garami, the entangled leg lock, is the final technique of the Katame no Kata (Forms of Grappling, which demonstrates five osaekomi (hold downs), five shimewaza (chokes), and five kansetsuwaza (joint locks)). On an interesting note, at my club we usually allow straight leg and ankle locks, wrist locks when on the ground, shoulder locks, and carefully applied neck cranks/spine locks (these usually refer to the same thing) in randori, in addition to arm locks and chokes.

As for weapons defenses, there are many in Judo. For instance, the Kime no Kata contains defenses against the knife, sword, and stick, and the Kodokan Goshin Jutsu contains defenses against the knife, stick, and gun. Peronally, I believe Judo's self defense techniques are so of the most powerful in any art because they make extensive use of throws and takedowns, atemi waza, chokes, a variety of joint locks, osaekomi (usually combined with a submission or finishing atemi), and even weapons techniques (such as disarming an attacker carrying and gun and then hitting him with it). If you would like more information, you are welcome to visit the Underworld Judo Q&A and ask me any time.



The atemi waza is actually very diverse.

The kicking techniques include mainly front, back, and side kicks to the knees, groin, and abdomen (in the Seiryoku Zenyo Taiikumen no Kata there is one front kick that is at head level (altho this is a solo kata), but most kicks are much lower), including some interesting seated front kicks in the Kime no Kata. Also included are knee strikes to the groin or abdomem.

Punching techniques include hooking-type punches (to the head or body), uppercuts (to the chin), straight punches (to the body or head), a thrust punch or two (to the head or body), hammerfist strikes (to the head), and downward closed fist strikes (to the head).

Elbows are not usually Thai-style elbows, but more reverse elbow strikes to the body of an opponent behind you or downward elbow strikes to the body or head of an opponent you are holding down.

Open-handed techniques include palm strikes to the head, fingertip strikes to eyes or throat, and knifehand strikes to the neck or certain points on the head.

This pretty much defines the Kodokan-listed atemi, but of course other atemi techniques have become commonplace in Judo's goshin waza over the years, such as using the front or back of the head to strike the soft tissue of an opponent's face (Kano actually mentions this in "Kodokan Judo") or kicks such as the roundhouse kick, which is usually used to strike the knee or body (specifically the ribcage) and is usually performed in the traditional way, by pulling the toes back and striking with the ball of the foot.

See, Judo does KICK ASS!