A Little Confused Here

[Forbidden Fury]

Hey guys, I'm a little confused about JKD. I've been looking up stuff and trying to read articles and the like to figure out what it's about, but still not sure. I understand that its not a set style, and that it seems to encourage people to adjust movements and techniques to see what works for the individual best. But, I'm assuming they still teach the techniques, the movements, the proper way of doing things (by this I mean like ways that won't injure yourself). Right? Everything I've read talks about where Lee got some of the movements, and how it encourages people to use whats best for them, but never mentions teaching actual stuff.

Also, how does this work differently from traditional arts? Is there a ranking belt system? Is it possible to advance, so to speak, or just to get better with no outer form of recognition? Are there uniforms or not? Is that up to the school itself? Is it mostly sparring? I've gathered that there are no or very few katas, at least. Is it true that JKD contains not only different strikes, but also incorportates grappling, joint locks, etc?

Any help would be appreciated! The school in my area has a 3 hour beginners seminar I'm looking into, which I'm sure would answer a few questions, but I can't actually pursue it for at least a month.

[Memnoch1207]

The true theory of JKD is to study multiple styles and take away from them those techniques that are effective and efficient.

[lssanjose]

hah! save me from a heart attack due to laughing so hard at that comment. No offense intended, but bruce was about skill in what you do, kicking faster, harder; punching faster harder, faster. You don't get that way by studying a multitude of responses for a set of stimuli. when the time comes, what are you going to respond with, ? Bruce was also into science and the human body; what was the best way to maximize the use of the body most efficiently. He found this through the onguard position and all the toolls that FIT it. He once said, there's no mystery to my style, my movements are SIMPLE, DIRECT, non - classical.

[Memnoch1207]

hah! save me from a heart attack due to laughing so hard at that comment. No offense intended, but bruce was about skill in what you do, kicking faster, harder; punching faster harder, faster. You don't get that way by studying a multitude of responses for a set of stimuli. when the time comes, what are you going to respond with, ? Bruce was also into science and the human body; what was the best way to maximize the use of the body most efficiently. He found this through the onguard position and all the toolls that FIT it. He once said, there's no mystery to my style, my movements are SIMPLE, DIRECT, non - classical.

The skills you are talking about (kicking and punching faster and harder) aren't the techniques, they are the attributes used to apply the technique.

His style was simple and direct, because he removed all of the unnecessary bs and focused on what worked.

When I said study different styles, I wasn't implying that gaining expert rank was necessary. An outsider can see what is effective in different styles without ever having trained in them. Thai kicks, boxing jabs, takedown techniques in Judo/BJJ, etc...

[aseepish]

Actual stuff: At the root of JKD is Jun Fan Gong Fu. Jun Fan is essentially a blend of Wing Chun, western boxing, and epee fencing (ideas and concepts rather than actual fencing techniques). Jun Fan represents the techniques and ideas that Bruce Lee thought were most direct. The research into other styles and systems comes later.

There is no rank in JKD aside from the instructor ranks. There are no uniforms aside from maybe a club t-shirt, which is optional at any rate.

You won't be sparring at first. You'll start off by learning the basic punches and kicks, and working them on focus mits and pads. You'll do more drills than sparring until you're ready for it. Sparring is typically progressive - you start off just using the jab, or your lead leg, and over a period of months you'll gradually increase which tools you use when you spar.

A sampling of Jun Fan techniques (by no means exhaustive):
-Straight lead
-Cross
-Hook
-Upper cut
-shovel hook
-corkscrew hook
-finger jab

-shuffle groin kick
-hook kick
-side kick
-jeet tek (stop kick)
-oblique kick
-Savatte Fouette

-Headbutts, knees, elbows

-trapping techniques (pak sao, lop sao, jao sao, tan sao etc...)
-Clinch work
-joint locks (standing for the most part)

What you actually learn depends on the background of your instructor. Those on the Inosanto side like to incorporate Brazilian Jiujitsu, Filipino martial arts, Silat, Muay Thai, and Burmese Bando.

JKD is like a framework - it gives you a sound concept of what is practical and what is not (and helps you tailor technique to your own size, body type, and abilities. What works for me is not necessarily what works for you). Once you understand this framework you can then absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.

There are a TON of books out there about JKD - Lee's own four volume series (Bruce Lee's Fighting Method) is a good place to start. Some would recommend reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do, but keep in mind that these were Lee's personal notes and were not originally intended for publication. It's a fascinating book though. Chris Kent and Tim Tackett's Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do: The Textbook is fantastic.

And again, because I'm biased Paul Vunak's Jeet Kune Do: It's Concepts and Philosophies.

[RAB]

Fury,

You are on the right track when questioning what it is because questions are part of the process of deep understanding. When you find an answer you are content with then what? What will it then mean to you then?

There are many people, books, and vidoes that provide examples of what it is to them. ...but after that, what does it mean to you?

If I say you can't achieve it, you have it already, but no one will ever recognize it within you. Would you then make more examples of what it is?

I'm not implying I know and what I believe is absolute. I'm saying that it can take on many meaning such as teaching actors to be better actors, giving lost people a mean to find themselves, or making tourament fighters better tourament fighters.

Respectfully,

RAB

[Tant01]

It's not that complicated...


Don't try to grasp it. It's like water... empty your cup first to fill it. Otherwise what you end up with is diluted or polluted.

If you go looking with preconceived ideas about what you think it is....


"JeetKuneDo simply simplifies". BL

[Clooneytkd]

in my opinion i think bruce lee was saying that if you dont like a style go with no style, meaning create your own. that way its up to you to make a style for you that works. no one will ever be like bruce lee, thats the point, be different. why do you think there hasnt been anyone like him? it may sound dumb and cheesey, which it does, but he made his unique style meaning his own punches kicks etc, from other styles. unless you sit in the mirror and try to copy his every movement and weird body structure you still wont move like him. most likely he started teaching it because at that time he was one of the best, so people assumed his fighting style was the best, it may be one of the best, but its the fighter that makes it that way. if you train your whole life at one thing, say martial arts your still not going to be the best its all up to the person. thats just my 2 cents as dumb as it may sound, its just my opinion

anyway check out this website. this guy is said be the students of bruce lee to be as good if not better than bruce himself. http://www.tommycarruthers.com/

[Tant01]

Have you ever studied JKD?

in my opinion i think bruce lee was saying that if you dont like a style go with no style, meaning create your own. that way its up to you to make a style for you that works. ........

Sure, that's what he meant..................


Does anyone ever bother to read a book? Study it? Really study it? Then how many actually practice the techniques and drills? Anyone?

This is the JKD forum, right? Where are the real JKD students to answer these questions and set the Concepts/ stylists versions out here? You know, for opinions to have any value they should be based in reality?

It seems a mystery to me that so few have a clue in the super fast technolgy age we live in the solution is at your fingertips! So, ignorance is a choice or just a matter of laziness.

Here>http://home.earthlink.net/~jeettek/page3.html

Go read, then see if your opinion changes.

Students of students (of students) of Bruce Lee still teach JKD so why not find a school with certified instructors and actually learn for yourself what JKD is (or is not).

You can only get so much from your monitor...

[eXcessiveForce]

Problem is that not even the JKD students agree. OJKD vs CJKD then you have the people who don't know anything about Jun Fan, or wing chun or boxing then saying that really you just combine stuff.


While I believe you could take the concepts that bruce used, combine lots of styles and then use them. I don't think that would have anything to do with JKD.

Now put it in the framework bruce laid out and continue to add things that prove useful and then you may be talking JKD.

all in all it's unimportant, train hard and become proficient.

[lssanjose]

For me, the only issue is giving credit where its due. Sometimes, believe it or not, people can give themselves credit but don't choose too. I mean, they come up with something on their own, but it's not JKD; it shouldn't matter if something's JKD or not. I dont' see why people need to be associated with JKD so badly. IF what you string togehter works for you and you like it, then great; it's not jkd however, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[robertlee]

JKD has a small tool box not a lot of this and that. A person can not keep adding this with that and make JKD. Bruce found what he could put together in a way that would work for him and others. Now others as taught by Bruce would learn in different aspects.As Bruce would try to work with them to give them the tools they could use. A person that trained long enough would learn more. But as its been said Its the daily decrease not increase that you find what will work for you. In the end JKD brecomes a personal side of your own training. As with any M/A you have a training to learn by. then the break down of application that you can do and use. Exposer from other arts. Should be seen as what you already have within that how can you use thateffectively aginst others. Then if you came across something else that may help you better. Use it. BUT discard the old for the new. As it is a tool that is no longer of need.. A small tool box of useable tools Is much better then trying to dig down and find that certion Need. JKD had function in its learning. Step by step. Even Dan Inosanto. wrote down a lesson plan To teach by. Call it Jun fan Or JKD. There was method to its learning. Bruce did not just take this and that and tried to teach it as his way. And he did not want people taking what he taught add it to there aspects of traing and call it JKD. I will agree that after training in JKD or Jun Fan which ever you prefure to call it. Exposer to other arts cAn help By letting you know How well what you are doing will work there Or if you need something else that would be better suited for you in that area. But agin you discard rather then add. And that becomes your personal JKD. As all arts are personal Learning them has method. Then you have to have the freedom of taking what becomes yours. JKD is a much argued M/A. And its grown in different directions. Has had otther methods added to its structure. BUT most that have done so. DId start at its base off learning. Then went to explore there needs. And set down a extended training rouetine. To teach by. You must have a open mind. that no art has all the answers. And the person comes first. robots do as programed. people do not. Holding someones elses truth without testing it. Is not your truth. only in testing. spars agins resistive partners. tests what you can really do. And that tests your methods. That alone is your freedom People have to learn then find there own path of perfomance. The test in M/A learning is in the hands on spars Or fights. Without this you have only therory. A understanding of appliction. But not the actual perfomance of personal discovery. Bruce was NOT the best M/A never would be. But he found a method that worked for him and others. That people did not see. That was testing out what you trained to do. And it worked well for him. The only reson others do not perform as well. is fighting is not controled on which tool do you use at this moment as training suggests. You have to find that out all by your self. The ones that find that out perform better. getting a toolb ox that has a hundred tools is a heavy burden to carry. But take a tool box that has 20 tools is light and well used. Thats decrease. Its easyer to get good at a few useable tools then a large amount that work only sometimes if conditions are right. . Thats JKD But others will still say its not.

[Tant01]

Framework? Hmmm, you don't say...

Actual stuff: ........
JKD is like a framework - it gives you a sound concept of what is practical and what is not (and helps you tailor technique to your own size, body type, and abilities. What works for me is not necessarily what works for you). Once you understand this framework you can then absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.

There are a TON of books out there about JKD - Lee's own four volume series (Bruce Lee's Fighting Method) is a good place to start. Some would recommend reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do, but keep in mind that these were Lee's personal notes and were not originally intended for publication. It's a fascinating book though. Chris Kent and Tim Tackett's Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do: The Textbook is fantastic.

And again, because I'm biased, Paul Vunak's Jeet Kune Do: It's Concepts and Philosophies.

Right, you mean you actually have a clue! Thanks for the input!

Did anyone else read the thread or do they just post a responst to the title? Sheeesh...I agree with your biased opinion.

I also enjoyed Larry Hartsell's (and Tim Tackett's) books JKD Entering to Trapping to Grappling but only because my first love is Judowaza.



I bet reading (or to even STUDY) a book would be way too much like school to be fun! And actually attending a certified Academy is too much like work.

Why do any of that when EVERYONE knows JKD is jusy your own personal style?

[ddrive]

Opinions on JKD. Combining Styles

I was very reluctant to post my opinion because I'm not a student, but an individual that trains with JKD students from time to time. Out of this whole discussion, I may have an answer to what separates JKD from traditional martial arts.

Most of us here would say [or I'm guessing] that JKD takes what's most useful and discard the rest, but how would we go about that?
I've been involved with various styles like [wc, boxing, judo, wrestling, and a little bit of jiujitsu] over the years, and I can't remember all of techniques. The one thing that does stay with me, and I drill constantly, are the basic principles of each style. Every traditional martial art is governed by one or two basic principals [from striking to grappling], which then leads to their techniques.

Some Examples:
Wing Chun - Known for it's very direct linear attacks, Simutaneous attack defense, Sensitivity Drills (chi sau), and conditioning, and trapping.

Boxing - Develops an individual speed & power through resistance traning. Also teaches and individual how to attack while mobile, defensive duck/weave manuvers.

Judo - Learning how to take down an opponent, by manipulation of their center of gravity (aka their chi center, just below their belly button)

You all get my point. I hope.
JKD, I think, is the method of trying to understand the principles of each style, and through various ways of training & sparring, discovering the most effective techniques while finding ways to enhance the actual principle itself. I also feel in JKD, one has to find the relaionships that connects principles. By doing all of this, a JKD student should not only be able to adapt to any style, but possess the ability to defeat their opponent at their own martial arts principle, or defeat them by using other principles within ones "toolbox".

I hope this all made sense to everyone. I kinda typed this out half asleep. Feel free to pick this post apart. Good night.

[SifuUga]

What JKD is

To be JKD you need interceptions and you need to train in all ranges. Each instructor will have his/her unique way and in turn each student will also. Some things like power side forward will be very common in most schools. Some things like knife sumbrada will not be. It is ecclectic to a degree but is not just mixing and matching systems. What it really comes down to is self discovery through the use of certain training methods and the application of concepts. To that end an instructor is needed to guide you on this path. Your instructor will give you the tools and eventually a chance to modify or toss them out completly. Staying non-traditional is important. Most schools that I have come across don't use an actual uniform. Katas are not generally used. Rank is well structured. Sometimes it will be in the form of belts, sashes or t-shirts. Each rank may have new traing methods or drills. JKD is different from traditional arts because the focus is on result(in real self defense) rather then sport or meditation. I hope this helps some.