Bruce Lee VS. Muhammad Ali

[blitz]

Mohammed Ali would beat all four of them.

[thtackett]

Bob Bremer asked Bruce how he would do in a fight with Ali. Bruce said that in the ring with boxing rules that Ali would win, but in the street "I'd destroy him". It's always good to know what the man himself said.
Tim

[Anti]

Is this before or after Bruce Lee's fight with Wong? Wait, nevermind. u said in his prime. I believe Bruce lee would win. despite Ali's experience against kicking, and his TKD experience, it would only prepare him for some of bruce lee's kicks. Also, Lee's punches usually only occured in response to an attack from an opponent. so Ali would punch, Lee would move in accordance to the punch, and use what little opening available to make a punch or two in edge wise. At the same time, Ali might not only punch. since he has fought on-boxers in the past, Ali would have probably been able to kick a little, regardless of how much effect it would have. I still stand either way on that Bruce Lee would most likely have won.

[Anti]

Bob Bremer asked Bruce how he would do in a fight with Ali. Bruce said that in the ring with boxing rules that Ali would win, but in the street "I'd destroy him". It's always good to know what the man himself said.
Tim

Very nice Tim. It is good to know what he said. When did he say this? and how did you get the info? Im always wanting more info on great fighters

[thtackett]

Bremer asked Bruce about it in 1968. Bremer told me what Bruce said about 25 years ago. I'll ask Bremer about it again this Wed at our class.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

So Tackett, what kind of training you been doin lately? Weapons? Grappling? Both?

[thtackett]

Wed night we work on mostly JKD, but we do some kali and some grappling. Richie Carrion our guy in Florida was the NAGA grappling instructor of the year in 2004. Lloyd Kennedy works with us a couple of times a month on countering the grappler, and I've started working with Jim McCann. Info on McCann can be found at:

http://www.xtremefreestyle.com/

[georgie]

cool link Gonzo.

btw, wasnt Ali one of the reasons Bruce was so interested in boxing ?

heres some info from bruceleecentral.com

"Although Mohammed Ali and Bruce Lee never had the chance to meet each other, there is irrefutable evidence that Bruce Lee was a great admirer of Ali and was heavily influenced by him. Several close friends and original Bruce Lee students have spoken of how Bruce Lee used to watch tapes of Mohammed Ali fights for countless hours. For example, Leo Fong (an original Bruce Lee student) recently said in interview, " Ali was Bruce's man. He had all of his fights on 8mm and he loved watching the Cleveland Williams fight over and over." Bruce Lee Central has discovered many other instances where close friends, family or students of Bruce Lee have made similar statements. For example, his brother Robert Lee once said in interview, "He (Bruce Lee) did tell me he really respected Muhammad Ali and thought he was a great fighter."

What is unclear however, is the extent to which Mohammed Ali influenced Bruce Lee. Some reports suggest that Bruce Lee was only interested in "borrowing" from Mohammed Ali's hand techniques. However, other reports have suggested that Lee was more interested in emulating Mohammed Ali's footwork."

the site also mentions some of bruce lees other influences, and the old boxer Jack Dempsey was mentioned as well.

it seems to me that there are some similarities in bruce's tao of jeet kune do and dempseys book championship fighting ( which some of you ive given ) ......if you get the chance and have both books look for the similarities.....ive read bruce used dempseys book as one of the reference's for his book........i think he loved to watch ali's amazing footwork and was deeply interested in ali's style of boxing as well .....very sad they never met.......think of what may have come out of that encounter?.......

[totaltwatdeano]

Bruce Lee would DEFINITELY win. Muhammad Ali was a great fighter , but Bruce Lee was one of the best.

[lucidmist]

Bruce Lee Wins.

Some idiot posted a video on youtube: Bruce Lee vs. Muhammad Ali: who would win in a fight?

He said Ali wld win cos of weight & size & that he's seen kickboxers take knee kicks. But he forgot Ali wasn't trained in kickboxing/knee defense. Lee cld also easily pull the same kick-in-the-groin stunt he pulled on O'Hara in Enter The Dragon (it's a movie but Bruce will do it if need be). He's known to incorporate practical moves in his movies to illustrate to audience what should be and shouldn't be. I'm not saying ALL the moves from his movies are practical moves. But he does incorporate practical ones here and there. Plus we've seen Bruce train with taller students. He cld shift just a cm away from their punches, & kick the guy in the groin easily.

Bruce stands and wait.
Ali moves in for a jab.
Before Ali can get close enough or even throw the jab, Bruce's foot slams straight into Ali's groin. (Bruce has been known to intercept attacks before they get successfully executed)

Assuming Ali has thrown the jab.
Bruce shifts his upper body backwards slightly, just enough for the fist not to reach him, and slams his foot into Ali's groin.

Let's not talk about Ali taking Bruce by surprise, cos that ain't even a fight.

[Britt]

Hey boys and girls, what if Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris were conjoined twins and they had to fight Mr. T and Gamera in outer space? What about that, huh?

In that case, we'd all win!

[Red Rum]

Unfortunately it comes back to the whole thing of proof. Many people claim Bruce Lee to be one of the best fighters, but how many fights are actually recorded? There is some footage of rooftop fighting with Lee and other kung fu students that looks pretty shoddy, and people have mentioned that he got into a lot of fights in Hong Kong and in the US.

However, there is countless records and proof of Ali's victories.

Kicking doesn't always matter. Kicks can be powerful, but if a person is rushed, kicks go out the window. It all comes down to timing, skill and luck

I am sure if you posted this on the boxing forum you would be getting a majority Ali vote

I'm a wing chun guy and I love Bruce's film, but sometimes you have to admit that your heroes just aren't as good as others

[lucidmist]

As you said...

No one's saying Ali's not a proven fighter, or a tough one at that. Of course, we can also say Ali's opponents were made to throw fights for "business", and Bruce Lee's fights could easily have been staged to promote his personal martial prowess.

Ali's proof was the media. Bruce's proof was people that were personal friends, people who trained with him, extras on movie sets... even Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung witnessed Bruce's fights before.

However, don't go personal and start the "your hero" stuff, cos I can easily retort back by saying you're just blindly worshipping Ali, too. But I won't, cos that's just silly.

I love Ali, and I love his fights with Foreman. I believe Ali has a fair chance of whooping Bruce Lee up.

Still, I have to say Bruce will win because he doesn't just have speed, he DOES possess raw power too - and he knows how to use every single bit of it.

The students of Bruce's were not just actors and common laymen. Many of them were accomplished martial artists of considerable reputation, size and power too. Champion fighters who were bigger and stronger than Bruce.

But they learnt from him.

If size does matter that much, then Hulk Hogan and many other pro wrestlers and sumo wrestlers would've been able to whoop Bruce, AND Ali.

Definitely, stamina, durability, strength, no way Bruce would outperform Ali. But Bruce wasn't trained to go round for round, with extended taunting and baiting. His taunts, baits and "hypnosis" techniques were meant to end fights quickly. Not for show money. Not for entertainment's purposes. For pure tackling of opponents that could be better trained or bigger and stronger. For someone like Bruce, who likes to attempt perfection and tries very hard to cover all bases, it is unlikely that he will overlook, from the beginning, how he can best handle opponents that are far bigger and stronger than himself.

That would probably have been his development priority right from the beginning, being a small-framed Asian in America.

[lucidmist]

As you said...

And whoever said Bruce would stand still if someone tried to rush him? If so, we wouldn't need Ali to do it. ANYONE could've rushed and whooped Bruce.

For any layman in martial arts, it is foolish to not train in anticipation of bullies or muggers who are bigger and stronger or faster than you. That is why we train, to face such situations. You think Bruce would let that slip his mind, when the rest of us don't?

And who says kicking doesn't matter. EVERYTHING matters. I had 4 bikers rushing me with helmets and every low kick and knee thrust mattered (of course i pretty much used my hands and fists blindly, I'm crap). I didn't come out that great, but I came out alive and kicking. And the important thing was, they backed off. I should say, rushing doesn't always work. If so, no one would need to learn martial arts. Everyone knows how to rush. You think Bruce wouldn't have trained to overcome that?

[lucidmist]

As you said...

No one's saying Ali's not a proven fighter, or a tough one at that. Of course, we can also say Ali's opponents were made to throw fights for "business", and Bruce Lee's fights could easily have been staged to promote his personal martial prowess.

Ali's proof was the media. Bruce's proof was people that were personal friends, people who trained with him, extras on movie sets... even Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung witnessed Bruce's fights before.

However, don't go personal and start the "your hero" stuff, cos I can easily retort back by saying you're just blindly worshipping Ali, too. But I won't, cos that's just silly.

I love Ali, and I love his fights with Foreman. I believe Ali has a fair chance of whooping Bruce Lee up.

Still, I have to say Bruce will win because he doesn't just have speed, he DOES possess raw power too - and he knows how to use every single bit of it.

The students of Bruce's were not just actors and common laymen. Many of them were accomplished martial artists of considerable reputation, size and power too. Champion fighters who were bigger and stronger than Bruce.

But they learnt from him.

If size does matter that much, then Hulk Hogan and many other pro wrestlers and sumo wrestlers would've been able to whoop Bruce, AND Ali.

Definitely, stamina, durability, strength, no way Bruce would outperform Ali. But Bruce wasn't trained to go round for round, with extended taunting and baiting. His taunts, baits and "hypnosis" techniques were meant to end fights quickly. Not for show money. Not for entertainment's purposes. For pure tackling of opponents that could be better trained or bigger and stronger. For someone like Bruce, who likes to attempt perfection and tries very hard to cover all bases, it is unlikely that he will overlook, from the beginning, how he can best handle opponents that are far bigger and stronger than himself.

That would probably have been his development priority right from the beginning, being a small-framed Asian in America.