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  • #91
    Ash...show me where Dan has said that "Bruce would not have taken JKD in the same direction I have"... I have never heard him say that nor read where he has said that...what I have heard him say and have read where he has said when asked about this is... if Bruce was alive today his JKD would look totally different than it did when he was alive because he was always adding to it and stripping it down and making sure it was combat ready, he was a great researcher. If you can show me written proof where Dan said what you claim he has said then please post it.
    Also, as for Dan being called Guro...that is Filipino for teacher which is the same as Sifu which is Chinese for teacher. He is calle dSifu by some and Guro by others and when he is working with Silat he is called something else that is no big deal.
    Again you are wrong in saying that "Dan says to learn the whole art"...this is total BS. Anyone who has ever trained with Dan knows this is crap. Dan never preaches to anyone that they need to learn all of any system...he will say that it is good to learn the basics and have a working knowledge of bjj, muay thai, kali...etc. but not to learn the whole art.
    Also, just so you know Dan does know Capoeira and for a long time had a guy teaching it at his school.
    If you look on Dan's shirts or his website and look at all the logos you will see:

    Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do (now says The Martial Legacy, The Intercepting Way- still uses Yin/Yang Symbol)
    Shoot Wrestling
    Kenpo Jiu Jitsu
    CSW (Combat Submission Wrestling)
    Machado Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
    Filipino Kali Eskrima Silat
    Malaysian Bersilat
    Muay Thai Kickboxing
    Krabi Krabong (weapon based part of thai boxing)
    Majapahit Martial Arts
    Mande Muda Pencak Silat
    French Savate

    The above arts are all taught at the Inosanto Academy...but guess what he DOES NOT BLEND THEM ALL TOGETHER AND CALL IT JUN FAN/JEET KUNE DO or even Jeet Kune Do!
    He has different people teaching the different arts at his school, he does teach alot of these himself but does not call them JKD. Each has its own respective class and time. He teaches Jun Fan in the Jun Fan class and you learn Jun Fan. As Dan says you can not learn, know or understand fully Jeet Kune Do without having a complete understanding of Jun Fan. You can not have one without the other. Does his JKD have more grappling styles in it than Bruce did when he was alive? Yes but why. When Bruce was alive he had 33 formal grappling techniques that he would train and teach which he got mostly from Professor Wally Jay (small circle Jiu Jitsu) and Judo Gene LeBell. He did incorperate grappling in his JKD when he was alive...no way around it. Dan and Larry has added more grappling to there JKD no way around that either. They will tell you where they got the material from and they will also tell you where the material from Bruce stoped at. They are very clear about this.
    Again you say whatever Dan tells his students/instructors to learn they do...this is wrong as well. He does not tell his instructors nor does he require his instructors learn any certain arts. He leaves that entirely up to them. If they ask him about a certain art he will give his opinion then encourage them to research it themselves. I know this from first hand experience.
    About the above arts represented at Sifu Dan's school....do you really think he teaches shoot wrestling or combat submission wrestling to his students and say "this is all part of Bruce's JKD. Since Shoot wrestling was not over hear in the U.S. until the early 90's. Yori Nakamura came to Dan from Japan to learn JKD in exchange for Shoot Wrestling...Dan let him start teaching it at his school. Erik Paulson founded Combat Submission Wrestling in the late 90's early 2000's...

    And you still have not answered my question or the question from Garland or Excessive Force. Who do you train with? where does you great knowledge come from? how long have you trained in JFJKD? and why do you not use your real name on these forums? and why do you not go ahead and fill out your martial arts bio for all to see and have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Tim McFatridge View Post
      Ash...show me where Dan has said that "Bruce would not have taken JKD in the same direction I have"... I have never heard him say that nor read where he has said that...what I have heard him say and have read where he has said when asked about this is... if Bruce was alive today his JKD would look totally different than it did when he was alive because he was always adding to it and stripping it down and making sure it was combat ready, he was a great researcher. If you can show me written proof where Dan said what you claim he has said then please post it.
      Also, as for Dan being called Guro...that is Filipino for teacher which is the same as Sifu which is Chinese for teacher. He is calle dSifu by some and Guro by others and when he is working with Silat he is called something else that is no big deal.
      Again you are wrong in saying that "Dan says to learn the whole art"...this is total BS. Anyone who has ever trained with Dan knows this is crap. Dan never preaches to anyone that they need to learn all of any system...he will say that it is good to learn the basics and have a working knowledge of bjj, muay thai, kali...etc. but not to learn the whole art.
      Also, just so you know Dan does know Capoeira and for a long time had a guy teaching it at his school.
      If you look on Dan's shirts or his website and look at all the logos you will see:

      Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do (now says The Martial Legacy, The Intercepting Way- still uses Yin/Yang Symbol)
      Shoot Wrestling
      Kenpo Jiu Jitsu
      CSW (Combat Submission Wrestling)
      Machado Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
      Filipino Kali Eskrima Silat
      Malaysian Bersilat
      Muay Thai Kickboxing
      Krabi Krabong (weapon based part of thai boxing)
      Majapahit Martial Arts
      Mande Muda Pencak Silat
      French Savate

      The above arts are all taught at the Inosanto Academy...but guess what he DOES NOT BLEND THEM ALL TOGETHER AND CALL IT JUN FAN/JEET KUNE DO or even Jeet Kune Do!
      He has different people teaching the different arts at his school, he does teach alot of these himself but does not call them JKD. Each has its own respective class and time. He teaches Jun Fan in the Jun Fan class and you learn Jun Fan. As Dan says you can not learn, know or understand fully Jeet Kune Do without having a complete understanding of Jun Fan. You can not have one without the other. Does his JKD have more grappling styles in it than Bruce did when he was alive? Yes but why. When Bruce was alive he had 33 formal grappling techniques that he would train and teach which he got mostly from Professor Wally Jay (small circle Jiu Jitsu) and Judo Gene LeBell. He did incorperate grappling in his JKD when he was alive...no way around it. Dan and Larry has added more grappling to there JKD no way around that either. They will tell you where they got the material from and they will also tell you where the material from Bruce stoped at. They are very clear about this.
      Again you say whatever Dan tells his students/instructors to learn they do...this is wrong as well. He does not tell his instructors nor does he require his instructors learn any certain arts. He leaves that entirely up to them. If they ask him about a certain art he will give his opinion then encourage them to research it themselves. I know this from first hand experience.
      About the above arts represented at Sifu Dan's school....do you really think he teaches shoot wrestling or combat submission wrestling to his students and say "this is all part of Bruce's JKD. Since Shoot wrestling was not over hear in the U.S. until the early 90's. Yori Nakamura came to Dan from Japan to learn JKD in exchange for Shoot Wrestling...Dan let him start teaching it at his school. Erik Paulson founded Combat Submission Wrestling in the late 90's early 2000's...

      And you still have not answered my question or the question from Garland or Excessive Force. Who do you train with? where does you great knowledge come from? how long have you trained in JFJKD? and why do you not use your real name on these forums? and why do you not go ahead and fill out your martial arts bio for all to see and have a better understanding of where you are coming from.
      AMEN! 3 Cheers for Mr. McFatridge!!!

      Comment


      • #93
        Has Dan Inosanto extensively studied :-

        Krav Maga
        Systema
        Ninjutsu
        Hapkido
        Eagle Claw Kung Fu
        Capoiera
        Wing Tsun (not Wing Chun)
        Shuai Chiao
        etc, etc.

        NO! Well how does he know that they are not effective arts or have techniques that are effective? Without studying the full arts.

        Life is too short you can't study Full systems or styles, all that is out there.

        NOTE : Dan Inosanto is not studying full systems and selecting effective techniques that fit the structure of JKD , he is doing the Full art & teaching it also - BJJ, Muay Thai, Filipino arts, etc. That is not even JKD philosophy, its his own.

        Besides, even if you want to go that route are the only effective arts out there that you should study in their entirety the ones that the Great Guru Dan recommends, practices or teaches?

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by ASHTANGA05 View Post

          In Italian - 'Youaa Talkaa A Lotta Nonsensaa'!
          Ash, In Italian - "Vaffanculo, busone!"

          Comment


          • #95
            NOTE : Dan Inosanto is not studying full systems and selecting effective techniques that fit the structure of JKD , he is doing the Full art & teaching it also - BJJ, Muay Thai, Filipino arts, etc. That is not even JKD philosophy, its his own.

            Besides, even if you want to go that route are the only effective arts out there that you should study in their entirety the ones that the Great Guru Dan recommends, practices or teaches?[/QUOTE]

            Damn boy...do you not read anything I write and understand it? How many times do I have to tell you that Dan does not dictate to his students or instructors what they learn,train or research! HE NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL...you know why because he knows that everyone is different and what he likes maynot be what someone else likes. Yes, he learns all the arts you mentioned..BJJ, MUAY THAI, FMA etc...but he DOES NOT teach them as being a part of JKD! Again he does blend the arts together but he does not call it Bruce's JKD. He tells everyone that Bruce taught it this way or Bruce taught this,this and this...now after I have trained in and research so and so I now like to do this. He is very clear about where Bruce's JKD stops and His JKD starts. There is nothing wrong with that.

            Yes, Sifu Dan teaches alot of different styles at his school...you know why? because his school is like a martial arts port for instructors from other countries to start teaching over here. He did that with Master Chai and Muay Thai, he did it with Yori Nakamura and Shoot Wrestling, he did it with the Late Herman Suwanda and Mande Muda Pencak Silat, he did it for the Late Edgar Sulite and Lameco Eskrima and on and on and on it goes. I have been at Sifu Dan's school training with Sifu Larry Hartsell upstairs and in the area right next to us there would be a kids class going on or a Kali class going on (depending on the night) while downstairs on one side of the building there is a Silat class going on and on the other side there maybe a Shoot Wrestling class or some other class going on....FOUR different classes, four different arts all going on at the same time...all being taught by someone other than Dan. Dan would be there and would make his way around to all the classes and observe and sometimes would step in and teach a few things. Then he would have the classes he teaches. There are classes going on at his school from early morning until around 10pm at night.

            You really need to take the time and go out and meet Sifu Dan personally face to face and train with him in some of his classes and have your questions answered that way instead of basing everything you know on what you read or what someone else said who happens to not like Sifu Dan. I tell you what I wil ldo for you though....This October my partner and I are having Sifu Larry Hartsell in for a two day seminar in Fort Worth, Texas...you should come out and train with him personally at the seminar. We are also having him come in a day early so we can get a few hours of private training in with him. This way if you come in I wil lintroduce you to him and you will be able to set down one on one with him and ask him all the questions you want on this subject and you will have your answers directly from him. He trained with Bruce at his school as well as at Bruce's house as private student and sent alot of time with him. Now before you say "I'm not spending my money to fly out and train with Larry"...I am willing to pay your way. No strings, no questions not BS. I will pay for your round trip airfare, your hotel and transportation to and from the airport. I will even let you work out with us the day before in the privates and we will take you to lunch or to eat with us and Sifu Larry...this way you can ask him all of your questions. I will also tell him that on the first day we want him to only teach Jun Fan as he was taught from Bruce Lee.

            Also you still have not answered any of my questions that I asked of you in my last two post.

            I would appreciate and answer from you soon...seeing how you said my ignorance on JKD was appauling.

            We all want to know who you train with? Who you are currently training with? how long you have trained in Jun Fan/ JKD? and I would like to know why you feel the need to have an alias on here...? I use my real name and make no bones about my background or who I have trained with...also you should take the time to fill out your martial arts bio on here so we all know where you are coming from.
            I really hope you answer these questions soon or everyone including me will start to think you are nothing more than a 20 something guy who thinks he knows it all.

            Comment


            • #96
              Tim,

              I never said Dan does dictate what his students should learn , but people under him & his Instructors look at the Great Guru / Fountain of All Knowledge - Dan Inosanto to show them 'The Truth' and to tell them what the most functional martial arts are.

              Dan lets his people study anything they want BUT the vast majority under him , only study the core arts he teaches. Most of his Instructors are not studying anything else extensively that Dan is not doing - as the Great Guru Dan is the Truth according to them. You need only look at the websites of his Instructors to see this or view their DVD's - Ron Balicki, Rick Young, etc.

              Again, Dan no longer teaches JKD or Jun Fan so his part in JKD history has ended , and we can only be grateful it has. He won't mention JKD or Bruce Lee much if at all in interviews or he wil get sued, nor Jun Fan either. He cannot use JKD logos, likeness of Bruce Lee in advertising; nor the names Jun Fan / JKD. It may have taken 30 years for that to happen, but now Dan has finished with JKD and his distorted false view has ended , Bruce Lee's art can be taught for real, and preserved for future generations.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Tim McFatridge View Post
                I tell you what I wil ldo for you though....This October my partner and I are having Sifu Larry Hartsell in for a two day seminar in Fort Worth, Texas...you should come out and train with him personally at the seminar. We are also having him come in a day early so we can get a few hours of private training in with him. This way if you come in I wil lintroduce you to him and you will be able to set down one on one with him and ask him all the questions you want on this subject and you will have your answers directly from him. He trained with Bruce at his school as well as at Bruce's house as private student and sent alot of time with him. Now before you say "I'm not spending my money to fly out and train with Larry"...I am willing to pay your way. No strings, no questions not BS. I will pay for your round trip airfare, your hotel and transportation to and from the airport. I will even let you work out with us the day before in the privates and we will take you to lunch or to eat with us and Sifu Larry...this way you can ask him all of your questions. I will also tell him that on the first day we want him to only teach Jun Fan as he was taught from Bruce Lee.
                Damn...I guess I should start speaking out of my ass more often, maybe I'd get the chance to train and meet all these cool people! That's one hell of an offer, and sounds like an excellent life experience.

                Pay airfare, board, and training? Jesus dude!
                I would SOOOOOOOO take him up on the offer!

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by ASHTANGA05 View Post
                  Again, Dan no longer teaches JKD or Jun Fan so his part in JKD history has ended , and we can only be grateful it has. He won't mention JKD or Bruce Lee much if at all in interviews or he wil get sued, nor Jun Fan either. He cannot use JKD logos, likeness of Bruce Lee in advertising; nor the names Jun Fan / JKD. It may have taken 30 years for that to happen, but now Dan has finished with JKD and his distorted false view has ended , Bruce Lee's art can be taught for real, and preserved for future generations.
                  Okay...it's official, I hate you.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    This is the last time I will ask you for this information Ash...then I will be quiet because quiet honestly my sense are starting to take back over. I have to agree with John MacNabney(hope I spelled your name right) I respect everyone that has trained with Bruce...all of the original students. They all have something to offer whether I agree with there stance or not I can learn something fro mall of them.....BUT

                    Answer my questions regarding you training and time spent studying the arts.

                    Also think about my offer about flying you in so you can train with Larry. You can go to our website and see for your self that we are bringing him in or go to larrys website and it is posted on his site as well. www.jkdassoc.com


                    Your silence on your training and background is speaking volumes my friend.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ASHTANGA05 View Post
                      Again, Dan no longer teaches JKD or Jun Fan so his part in JKD history has ended , and we can only be grateful it has. He won't mention JKD or Bruce Lee much if at all in interviews or he wil get sued, nor Jun Fan either. He cannot use JKD logos, likeness of Bruce Lee in advertising; nor the names Jun Fan / JKD. It may have taken 30 years for that to happen, but now Dan has finished with JKD and his distorted false view has ended , Bruce Lee's art can be taught for real, and preserved for future generations.
                      What exactly is the goal of the Bruce Lee foundation? Historical preservation? As I understand it, the original goal of jkd was combat efficiency and to be a more effective martial artist. All the guidelines and principles that Bruce came up with were made with this in mind. Has the goal of jkd changed?

                      Comment


                      • Damn, Maybe I should start bashing all the JKDC guys too. That is an awesome offer.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eXcessiveForce View Post
                          Damn, Maybe I should start bashing all the JKDC guys too. That is an awesome offer.
                          that's what I said, man.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ASHTANGA05 View Post
                            Bruce took a dim view of Thai Boxing
                            That does not accord with what Joe Lewis says here about his experiences with Lee. There's a lot of interesting info in that interview, like what direction Lee's JKD was taking at the time, prior to his death (actually Joe Lewis says it was not the direction currently taken by Lee's disciples, but not Ashtanga's view either!).

                            Comment


                            • Kirves,

                              If you must use anyone to try back up your points, please refrain from using Joe 'The Human Turd' Lewis! It helps greatly, thanks.

                              Joe is legendary like Bob Wall for 'sugarcoating the insults' to Bruce Lee - Bruce was fast but couldn't land, he was great technician but really couldn't fight, etc.

                              Worse Joe frequently contradicts himself in interviews.

                              Bottom line - he is jealous of being in Bruce Lee's shadow, and always will be ; and he hates being considered a lesser to him as a martial artist & fighter.

                              When Bruce was around, Joe never dared say any of the BS he now does on BL, derogatory comments, etc.

                              In the interview you post link too, eyewitnesses saw Bruce and Joe spar but he denies it as Bruce knocked him all around his backyard. He did the same with Chuck Norris. Joe says none of the champions sparred with Bruce Lee - even if he denies they did, Chuck Norris freely admits they did spar!

                              Despite , Legendary Fighter, self proclaimed Greatest Fighter of All Time, Joe never was that good! His point fighting days he was a JOKE compared to Chuck Norris , etc , and Joe had very limited technique. In full contact, his record is nothing great, and he looked more like a second rate boxer that threw a few kicks.

                              Besides, can you imagine someone of Joe Lewis's massive ego studying under someone like Bruce Lee, that he didn't regard as much of a fighter or that great a martial artist?

                              Comment


                              • Tim McFartidge,

                                My experience :-
                                Tae Kwon Do 2nd Degree Black Belt 4 years.
                                Non Classical Gung Fu / Novo 2 years with Mike Lee (Jesse's Glovers brother)
                                Wing Tsun 3 year private student Emin Boztepe
                                Wing Tsun Formal Classes (EWTO) 5 years (was doing private lessons with Emin at this time) 3rd Degree TG Technician.


                                Seminars :-

                                General Choi & son Choi Jung Hwa - Tae Kwon Do / Hee Il Cho Tae Kwon Do / Eyal Yanilov Krav Maga / William Cheung (Wing Chun) / Keith Kernspecht WT / Leung Ting WT / Dan Inosanto (various BS mainly 1001 techniques type seminars) / Paul Vunak / Jesse Glover / Ted Wong / Patrick Strong / Ted Wong.

                                Also met several JKD Concepts guys whilst doing WT , often they would go to further their WT training they felt they were missing a lot.

                                Obviously read a great deal , practically everything out there on BL & JKD; seen hundreds of videos on it also.

                                Incidentally, as you claim Dan does not regard all the arts he does as being JKD, he released several video tapes titled 'Jeet Kune Do' that teach all those different arts under the name 'JKD'! How wrong you are. He chose the titles not the manufacturers by the way.

                                Comment

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