Bruce Lee Foundation - Official Jun Fan JKD

[aseepish]

I'm Anthony, so it must be the other guy

[ncgf]

good responses everyone,

ashtanga you seem to have a lot of info and onowledge on the original junfan jkd method and its students and practitioners. I was wondering if anyone claiming a link to original jkd has actually competed in any ufc type events or anything. On anmother forum there are many oriignal jkd people, but none of them have ever really done any fighting or anything. yea, I know JKD is supposed to be for the street, but if it cant adapt to teh rules of mma competition, then it would seem to me to be a really inflexible style. Sometimes there are rules that one has to fight buy, one cant always go all out and use anything. If JKD is only efective when it can use the finger jabs and groins strike and all, then people who have to fight under legal type rule like police, security, bouncers, etc would find JKD useless as a fighting method. And if no original JKD npeople havent ever done well or even tried to fight in mma, does that mean that it isnt as effective as the concepts stuff who has had a lot of people fight in the mma and muay thai kind of fights.

I hope you can provide some of the info, I cant seem to get it from anyone else. And again, please dont say something like, JKD practitioners could beat the ufc or mma on the street if they wanted to or could win in teh ring if they reied, on the otehr forums they are always trying to use that excuse. i am trying to find some real info about the people who practice oriignal JKD before deceideing which way to go (original or concepts).

thanks for any help
Nonc

[Kirves]

Again who knows more about JKD than the founder himself???

When Bruce Lee closed his school, he said he did so because 'The curriculum was being mistaken for the truth.'

If Bruce Lee the founder looked at those arts & did not include them in JKD suffice to say he had very logical & strong reasons!

Yes, very logical reason: those didn't help his personal style of fighting. He was all about personal style ('...discard the useless, add what is specifically your own.'). So it doesn't prevent someone else absorbing such methods to their personal style if they are useful.

So who is anyone else to say 'well Bruce looked at this & discarded this, but what the heck I'll include, who cares what the founder did or said on the subject'.

You keep repeating what the founder did, what the founder said and especially what the founder didn't do. In essence, you are limiting your growth because "master of long ago said so", i.e. you are stuck in the classical mess Bruce Lee was so much against! I can't do this, because old text of a dead master didn't include this! I must do this because old text of a dead master says so! Sifu said... Master said... Founder said...

We need a Bruce Lee reincarnation, for people have already forgotten what the first one actually said.

[ASHTANGA05]

Kirves,

I am definitely not advocating only what the founder did or said as you put it.

But again ........... JKD is not an excuse to go study any old art under the sun & because you do so it automatically becomes JKD! If that is the case any MMA guy does JKD. All UFC, Pride , etc guys are all JKD guys.

Are they? I think not.

Inosanto Group : Muay Thai, Filipino Martial Arts , Brazilian JJ, Shoot Wrestling, Pencak Silat, etc + JUN FAN (diff. name now as they legally cannot use that) = JEET KUNE DO.

Another Group : Muay Thai, Capoiera, Tae Kwon Do, Krav Maga, Systema, Karate + JUN FAN = JEET KUNE DO.

Another : Kenpo Karate, Ninjutsu, Sambo, Aikido, Eagle Claw Kung Fu + JUN FAN = JEET KUNE DO.

You are saying all of those are doing JKD? If so, JKD is just an excuse to do any old art as long as it works for you , its JKD.

JKD has certain principles & structure , and guidelines to evaluate other arts & techniques. Not all systems or techniques fit into that structure, nor meet the criteria to be worth including. If it did not, then as before go Cros Train in anything as long as you like it & it works for you , its JKD - that is 100% NOT what Bruce Lee was advocating & NO serious JKD Instructor will tell you it was - go ask any!

Besides , who knows more about JKD than the founder? That does not necessarily mean only practicing what BL did or taught , but it does mean adding only if necessary & according to the principles of JKD. Besides towards the end of his life , BL was stripping the art down , not adding loads of new techniques 'stripping away the unessentials'.

[ASHTANGA05]

GARLAND,

First of all regarding the Private Messages asking if I would like to meet to discuss things on martial arts then go back to your place afterwards - actually I am married and unlike yourself not gay, so I have no interest whatsoever in the offer. I would also suggest to you seriously that if you want to meet people try a dating service or go to a chat room, don't send private messages to people on a martial arts forum, definitely not the place to do so.

Anyway , regarding your post saying Burton Richardson practices a bunch of obscure stuff , such as?

http://jkdunlimited.com/wrapper.php?file=faq.htm

Only see one training with Zulu Warriors, he did not do it for long merely one for the CV, besides nobody takes Zulu Warriors Stick Fighting too seriously. Heard of many in the West rushing to learn it? Training briefly in that is like saying you trained with the Maori Warriors in New Zealand, good for the CV, but pretty meaningless. Besides does he actively teach that - no.

All his Core Arts that he teaches are the same as Inosanto's group, maybe different Instructors but all the same - Muay Thai , etc. So again quit talking such nonsense.

[Kirves]

Why limit yourself?

If something works, why drop it just because it doesn't abide to some ancient theory? In real science, theories evolve as per research and new data and information. So it should be with martial art theories. As Bruce Lee so eloquently put it: 'It's just a name. Don't fuzz about it.'

If the name of the art starts to limit your options, maybe it would be wise to drop the name altogether? Because that's when you are confusing the name with the curriculum - and that's when Lee decided to close his school.

[ASHTANGA05]

Kirves,

Its nothing to do with abiding by some ancient theory.

But JKD has certain principles & has ways to evaluate techniques.

As for what works???

Do you need 30 variations on a Lead Hand Jab (Muay Thai / Savate / Panatukan / Western Boxing , etc - all different but all basically doing the same job).

Do you need 20 variations on a roundhouse/turning kick? Muay Thai, Jun Fan, Savate, Filipino Arts - all different, but all doing the same basic job and travelling the same route.

It has been Scientifically proven that the more options you learn & greater number of responses you have, the chances increase that your reactions will be slower than having one or a few responses. For example in a fight and you get defence against double lapel grap - and you have 30 responses from Krav Maga / Systema / Ju-jitsu, etc - the likelihood your reactions will be slower to respons than if you had one or two responses. Worse, if defending against several techniques in all out fight, the more responses you have can often mean the more time it takes to respond especially under stress & the more options you have logically means the higher probability you have of selecting a wrong or inappropriate response.

How do you define what works anyway? The Filipino Martial Arts contain much flashy stuff that is not useful in a real street fight, twirling sticks and fancy moves, Savate contains kicks that are not practical to use in a streetfight such as to the head, etc.

Bruce Lee's art had responses to all situations in Combat. So why the overkill - with add 10,001 new techniques. Side kick & variations from Bruce Lee why add 20 more? Punches why add 20 more? Defences why add loads more? Trapping - why add load more? Pointless.

[Garland]

GARLAND,

First of all regarding the Private Messages asking if I would like to meet to discuss things on martial arts then go back to your place afterwards - actually I am married and unlike yourself not gay, so I have no interest whatsoever in the offer. I would also suggest to you seriously that if you want to meet people try a dating service or go to a chat room, don't send private messages to people on a martial arts forum, definitely not the place to do so.

Anyway , regarding your post saying Burton Richardson practices a bunch of obscure stuff , such as?

http://jkdunlimited.com/wrapper.php?file=faq.htm

Only see one training with Zulu Warriors, he did not do it for long merely one for the CV, besides nobody takes Zulu Warriors Stick Fighting too seriously. Heard of many in the West rushing to learn it? Training briefly in that is like saying you trained with the Maori Warriors in New Zealand, good for the CV, but pretty meaningless. Besides does he actively teach that - no.

All his Core Arts that he teaches are the same as Inosanto's group, maybe different Instructors but all the same - Muay Thai , etc. So again quit talking such nonsense.

That's cute...gay jokes? I haven't sent any pm's yet...you're married? That's fantastic, I only hope that being monogomous might limit whatever chances you have of spreading your genes onto whatever progeny you may spawn like a pestilence to the world.













Furthermore...you couldn't handle me. Sorry.

[Garland]

It has been Scientifically proven that the more options you learn & greater number of responses you have, the chances increase that your reactions will be slower than having one or a few responses. For example in a fight and you get defence against double lapel grap - and you have 30 responses from Krav Maga / Systema / Ju-jitsu, etc - the likelihood your reactions will be slower to respons than if you had one or two responses. Worse, if defending against several techniques in all out fight, the more responses you have can often mean the more time it takes to respond especially under stress & the more options you have logically means the higher probability you have of selecting a wrong or inappropriate response.

How do you define what works anyway? The Filipino Martial Arts contain much flashy stuff that is not useful in a real street fight, twirling sticks and fancy moves, Savate contains kicks that are not practical to use in a streetfight such as to the head, etc.

Bruce Lee's art had responses to all situations in Combat. So why the overkill - with add 10,001 new techniques. Side kick & variations from Bruce Lee why add 20 more? Punches why add 20 more? Defences why add loads more? Trapping - why add load more? Pointless.

1) Cite your sources douchebag. Let's see them stats. And by the way nothing is ever PROVEN, things are only provisionally accepted. Just a terminology problem on you're part...or is it just a smaller sub-problem stemming out of being a gullible and stubborn fuckwit?

2) FMA's as being flashy? Maybe sinawalli double stick stuff...or carenza...but that's just to warm up, like shadow boxing or doing jab drills...HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE DOGBROTHERS? Get a life, you shit-talking, dripping pink sock (think prolapsed asshole) of an armchair warrior.


3) If that was the truth, why would Guro Dan want to add shit to the art? If it's so fucking perfect, let's see it...go to youtube, post a video.

[ASHTANGA05]

Garland,

Just quit the Private Messages okay! You want to talk on JKD here fine, not interested in meeting up , etc that you talk of in private messages.

And your attempts to deny you sent them on the forum are pathetic, nbody believes you.

[Garland]

And your attempts to deny you sent them on the forum are pathetic, nbody believes you.

That's cool, but here's something that everyone will believe...


if ASHTANGA's parent's had seen this when they were younger;

https://www.plannedparenthood.org

the world would no doubt be a much less shitty place.


Is ASHTANGA code for accidental pregnancy?

[ASHTANGA05]

Garland,

You really are an ignorant turd , like I said quit now & stop embarrassing yourself further. Maybe it is because you are a Moron (Mormon) from Salt Lake City.

The points you made : -

1) Sources Hicks / Ferrara mentioned briefly here - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290018138175 look at part not too far down on Reaction Time. Studies from both of them are well known & I would recommend reading studies of Hicks & Ferrara in their entirety as I have done. Again you are very unknowledgable on basic things & are incredibly ignorant - go read & learn more.

2) As for Filipino Martial Arts containing a lot of flashy & often impractical stuff they sure do. Even the basic premise of Escrima - very unlikely you will have a Escrima stick or two with you in real fight; any stick you pick up in a street fight is likely to break quickly or will be odd shaped/heavy so you cannot use it remotely like an Escrima stick even with basic defences or blocking. This isn't flashy to you? : -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J757IZtyPu8

Observe the twirling especially behind the head, etc! Yes, have heard & seen the Dog Brothers the fact they are doing Escrima full contact certainly does not make it much less flashy or any more applicable to a real street fight.

3) Why has Dan added so much? Because thats what he likes to do, thats just him, he has an interest in researching martial arts , always has & always will. 30 years ago he was doing diff. stuff than he was 15 years ago. He has added a great deal that is not necessary at all. As I said turning/roundhouse kick practicing it from Jun Fan / Savate / Muay Thai / Filipino Arts / Pencak Silat (& all the many variations within each art of that one kick) is unecessary & pointless. Like learning 20 ways to cut open an Apple & eat it, some may find that fun, but to those who just want to eat the apple there is no point learning that many ways.

As for real JKD - why not view the founder Bruce Lee? Makes perfect sense I hope. Go view 'Way (Return) of The Dragon' for example. Do the Concepts people you mention move remotely like him? Or do the Concepts people just look like MMA guys or those with strong Kickboxing/Muay Thai style?

Who do you train under/with anyway? Assuming you are in JKD Concepts group? Not with these guys I hope? - http://www.kalistaacademy.com/Index.html

[Garland]

that first link is for a ninja movie, dumbfuck. Show me a peer reviewed academic journal if you want me to buy any of your shit.

Move like Bruce Lee? Are you kidding me, all that pendulum footwork will get you KILLED. I gotta ask...do you do the "HYAAAAAAAAAAAA" and kitty cat noises too?

Saying all FMA's are flashy is like saying all CMA's are performed by crazy bald assholes with white-eyebrows.
look flashy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqdC-OJTm9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-6CfNjflxY

and yeah, I trained with Khru Bernales and plan to continue training with him in the future...who do you train with, or would you rather hide who you really are and who you're under like a chickenshit?

[Garland]

seriously, I want to know who the **** you are.

[ASHTANGA05]

http://www.elite-fighters.com/library/downloads/familygroupings.htm

Link with Reaction Time. Go read the full studies by Hicks / Ferrara! Stop being so damm ignorant too. Open your mind & try learn more.

Would Bruce Lee easily beat any JKD Concepts person around today? YES. Go ask Dan Inosanto to confirm & hes seen them all. So what good is all that extra unecessary BS? Bruce did theatrical stuff in movies of course but also a lot of stuff he would have used for real too.

Will Bernalese yeh hes really good? ha ha! Not even a good example of a Concepts Instructor , and certainly not regarded as one of the best under Inosanto.