questions about BL

[jubaji]

In a streetfight do you think any boxer could have stood up to Bruce Lee using only there two hands - against all Bruce Lee's weapons?

get the **** lost, you slack-jawed, nut-sucking idiot.

[ASHTANGA05]

Jubaji,

This is a discussion forum - 'fools argue , wise men discuss' (Paramahansa Yogananda), try adding something constructive to the discussion at hand.

[ASHTANGA05]

Regarding - in a steetfight Bruce Lee using all his weapons against a boxer , view Ron Balicki's Jun Fan JKD 2 disc set with Diana Inosanto go to extras - the interview, where he talks about when Bruce was asked if he could have beat Muhamma Ali, Bruce replied - 'in the street I'd kick his ass'!

[jubaji]

Jubaji,

This is a discussion forum - 'fools argue , wise men discuss' (Paramahansa Yogananda), try adding something constructive to the discussion at hand.

****-off, punk. You are a one-note, nut-sucking fanboy with nothing to add, so take your act on the road, Junior

[Kirves]

Bruce was asked if he could have beat Muhamma Ali, Bruce replied - 'in the street I'd kick his ass'!

But then it must be true!

[JKDGUY]

Bruce andBoxing

Ashtanga05, what did Bruce do to all of his punches to make them different from boxing punches? A hook is a hook, an uppercut is an uppercut. He did a uppercut like a boxer would do it...he would bend his lead leg slightly as he dropped his opposite shoulder and turned at the waist then as he threw the uppercut he would "corkscrew" backup with his body to give his punch more power. When he threw his hooks he would throw a Shovel Hook with his hand at a 45 degree angle and again use his body to generate the power. He would throw his hooks to the body and head in one of two ways either with elbow up or the elbow would be down until just before impact then he would raise it up. He also believed that all punches come off the jab...in other words the jab sets everything up. He also believed that the rear cross was the "heavy artillery" of the boxing punches. He would step up as he punched and set down on the punch in order to have maximum power generated. He would also step out and quarter turn at times as he threw hooking punches. This "zoning" footwork would take him out of range for the other hand of the attacker. This is the same way that boxers do it. He added this later in his training...if you look at early video footage of him working out on a heavy bag you can see the difference.

[JKDGUY]

[QUOTE=ASHTANGA05;234376]



Joe Lewis, Bob Wall, etc have basically said they could have beaten Bruce after he passed of course, just to be on the safe side. Go read Louis Delgado's , Larry Hartsell, etc experiences of sparring with Bruce Lee. Others like Gene Lebell, etc have 'sugar coated the insults to Bruce Lee' (the great Gene fought in some fixed wrestling matches , & minor Judo tournaments, self proclaimed 'Toughest Man Alive' ; first real challenge he got from the Gracies , he crapped his pants & made very lame excuses about his age - what does that matter if you are 'The Toughest Man Alive'? You get attacked in the street could you use that excuse if you are older?). Nobody ever talked that sort of crap to his face, they know what they would have got.




Ashtanga05, Gene LeBell crapped in his pants when he was challenged by the Gracies and gave them a lame excuse? I do not think the age "excuse" was a lame one. What he said when the Gracies challenged him was..."seeing how I am 30 plus years your senior I will not fight you but I will fight your dad, since we are close to the same age" thats pretty much what he told them. At that time the Gracies were challenging everyone knowing that most of the people they challenged would never accept. They challenged Mike Tyson to a MMA type fight with the same type of rules. If they win they get bragging rights if Tyson wins he gets $100,000...yeah ok. He was making $20 million a fight back then. Was a chicken for not fighting them or smart...? he was not a MMA fighter he was a boxer. I heard that Tyson commented he would fight them if they got in the ring and fought him at boxing but they did not want to do that. Bruce Lee actually called Gene LeBell the " most dangerous man he has ever met," because at the time Gene was already cross training in judo, boxing and other forms of wrestling. Dan and Larry and Richard Bustillo all testify to Bruce saying this. How do you know Gene LeBell fought in wrigged wrestling matches and fought in some minor grappling tournaments....were you there? do you know the guys he fought against?

[JKDGUY]

Also Ashtanga05,

Sorry for the multiple post guys.

Ashtanga you said that Gene LeBell fought and won some minor tournaments, what do you consider to be a major tournament? Gene LeBell competed in the AAU and USA Judo Championships and won both of them back to back in 1954 and 1955. Several years later Ed Parker told him of a boxer who said he could best any wrestler around. Gene agreed to step in the ring with this guy but when he got there the guy he was suppose to fight was no where to be found...instead it was Milo Savage who was ranked #5 in the world in the light heavyweight division. Gene agreed to go ahead with the fight and stepped in the ring with Milo Savage who was greased up from head to toe, after 4 rounds Gene LeBell choked him out and he remained out for 20 minutes. You can go to Genes website and buy this fight on VHS if you want.
Gene LeBell is the real deal and was the real deal. What I do not understand is why you take it upon yourself to come onto public forums and bad mouth everyone in the martial arts world. I read your post on other threads where you were praising Emin Boztepe and talking about how great WT is, then on other threads I see you putting down Emin Boztepe and saying that he is really not that fast. I have seen where you have said that Emin Boztepe could beat any JKD Concept guy with no problems, that he could dance circles around them, then on another forum you say that Erik Paulson and Ron Balick (who are JKD Concept guys) could easily beat Emin Boztep because they are top MMA fighters and train with other world class top notch martial artist in different arts and Emin only trains with his WT guys. Of course since I am a student of Erik Paulson this makes me feel good but it makes you look very inconsistent with your post and views. I also read on some of those same threads where you were putting down Dan Inosanto and Hartsell and Paul Vunak and the likes there of, then on another thread you make comments like "go ask Larry what it was like to spar with Bruce" or "go ask Jesse Glover about the WJM fight and he will tell you, or ask Dan about the fight and you will hear the truth", if I was to believe what you said in your other post on other threads then I could not ask Dan or Larry or anyone who is under them anything and actually believe it would be the truth, instead I would be certain that anything they told me would be something they made up and would be strictly there view of what happened.

[ASHTANGA05]

JKD Guy,

The age excuse by Gene Lebell was pathetic, again he gets into a fight in the street with someone really wanting to harm him - could he use it , 'sorry can't fight you I'm too old'? Again , he's 'The Toughest Man Alive' so what does that matter? He knew he would get beat easily, and the harm it would do to his overhyped rep., thats why he refused.

His Wrestling matches were 'fixed' as real as WWF Wrestling, etc - maybe you believe that is real, in which case I won't spoil it for you and tell you it's not.

As for his Judo matches, did he ever win a World title - No! Compete against the Worlds best in Judo - No. Did he ever win the Olympic title in Judo (became an Olympic sport in 1964) - No.

Bruce never said he was the most dangerous guy , etc - stop telling porkies!

If winning fixed wrestling matches, minor Judo tournaments (never a World title), and fighting a boxer (in a match many say the result was 'fixed' due to the betting on it), oh and having a real big mouth - makes you 'The Toughest Man Alive' there must be a heck of a lot 'Tougher Men Alive' than him.

His top student Gokor how is his MMA record? Compared to Rickson Gracie, etc? Hence the nickname 'Gokor The Joker' given by some.

[JKDGUY]

So again I ask you Ashtanga05 what do you consider to be a major tournament? He fought in and won the AAU and the USA Judo Championships in 1954 and 1955 is that not a major tournament? It had some of the best Judo players from around the world competing in it and he beat them. Yes he was a World Champion Wrestler and no it was not like the WWF was today. He trained with Ed Strangler Louis when he was younger as well as Lou Thesz, both of whom are very well known Catch Wrestlers. He sparred with and worked out with Sugar Ray Robinson as well as many many other professional boxers of his day. His fight with Milo Savage...of course there were bets on the fight. There are bets on every sporting event in the world and whats your point about that? Just because there was money bet on the fight it was rigged. The name "The Worlds Toughest Man" was given to him when he was much much younger. If we use your reasoning then if Bruce Lee was alive today who many people consider to be the fastest man they ever saw...if he was challenged by someone that claimed to be faster and they beat him would that mean they beat the great Bruce Lee " the Fastest Man Alive" or would it mean they beat Bruce Lee who is much older now and does not move nearly as fast as he did in his prime. I have to tell you Ashtanga you are the only person I see coming in to any of these forums that is consistent. You consistently bad mouth and run down anyone and everyone that has a name other than Bruce Lee. You pumped up one of your "instructors" in one thread then came in here and ran him down. You talk more trash on people than anyone I have ever seen...yet seem to be an expert on every subject. IMO I think you do nothing but sit around and read all the martial arts books you can get your hands on and fantasize about being as good as the guys you read about. Heres is a news flash for you....if you spent less time reading books and trash talking all the other martial artsit in the world and more time training you would be closer to them than you are now. After reading all of your post I will be waiting for one of your snappy comebacks.

[jeffmichaels]

re:

This whole thread, which I am sorry that I started, demonstrates the problems with the Bruce Lee subculture and perhaps the internet in general. Anyone who tries to have an intelligent discussion or do some objective analysis concerning the abilities, contributions, and limitations of Bruce Lee and his gung fu styles is automatically whipsawed between worshippers of Bruce Lee on the one hand and haters of Bruce Lee on the other. It is like this: either Bruce Lee was Superman, or Bruce Lee was just an ordinary MA instructor who was no better than Sensei Simth who runs the corner mcdojo.
There seems to be no middle ground for any kind of inquiry. Let me ask an open-ended question-- did Bruce want students who worship him, or did he want self-starters as students who might someday surpass him? And I don't care if Bruce could beat Oyama, Kimura, Jack Dempsey, or Chuck Liddell, I would just like to know that he submitted wong Jak Man!

[eXcessiveForce]

You can only get opinions. And in this case only people who were present at that encounter would be useful. Even then personal bias is probably going to keep you from getting a clear picture of what happened.

Bruce is dead, so we will never know if he would have been beaten badly, or become the ultimate martial artists.

What can be said is that bruce has some good ideas about martial arts, He trained hard, and he inspired many to pursue the arts. Many of these people are well respected martial artists today. Is there a better measure for a dead man?

[JKDGUY]

Jeff...I apologize for adding to the BS post by communicating with Ashtanga "Ma Bell" Yoga Master.

I agree Bruce Lee was agreat martial artist who was way ahead of his time. He contributed a great deal to the martial arts and did it in a way that gained public attention and support. He is the reason so many people are involved with the arts today. To be honest no one knows exactly where he would be today if he were alive. I have to think that from all his writings he did not want a bunch of "Minnie Me's" walking around trying to imitate him and doing everything he did. His whole purpose was to educate people on finding there own way in the martial arts and the world. He taught people not to be bound by any one style or tradition because he knew everyone was built different and had different natural talents. What worked for him would not work for someone twice his size and so on.

[Garland]

Jeff...I apologize for adding to the BS post by communicating with Ashtanga "Ma Bell" Yoga Master.

ASH, like Ma Bell...gots the ill communication...in fact, lil' bitch just barely issued another veiled threat to yours-truly. Ash is the epitamy of the internet tough-guy chicken shit, Bruce Lee nut-hugger.
I like Bruce, I practice JKD...but this guy is a freaking Bruce Lee stalker...I bet Ash cut bruce lee's name into his own ass, like that dude in FEAR. (you know...Marky Mark.)

[Garland]

Is there a better measure for a dead man?

Decay?




sorry. That was pretty bad.