Has anyone trained with Vunak lately?

[SamuraiGuy]

I understand that flow drill is supposed to work your Kino Mutai, but you sweep him to the mount and bite his face?

Wtf.... that seems retarded, I dont care if your trying to work your Kino Mutai, from the mount its a retarded idea that shouldnt be trained IMO.

From the bottom of side control, maybe even the top, from the bottom yes, from the gaurd, maybe, but from the mount, hell no.

[bzarnett]

Wtf.... that seems retarded, I dont care if your trying to work your Kino Mutai, from the mount its a retarded idea that shouldnt be trained IMO.

Why is it retarded?

[SamuraiGuy]

SG,
What if you were mounted on someone with a weapon, and both of your hands were occupied trying to deal with that? Would't a bite be an acceptable way of distracting?

Headbutts my friend, headbutts.

And to the other guy, its retarded because you should be hitting him with your hands or elbows, what is a bite gonna do compared to that. In such a dominant position you should be looking to finish the fight or get back to your feet.

In this situation mike posed, you cant use your hands, but headbutts are stlll the more viable option if you ask me. Or if he has a weapon, forget biting him, just focus on that, work for control of the arm/weapon, I doubt dividing your attention to biting him is gonna help you more than concentrating on the weapon.

[SamuraiGuy]

Call me crazy but I'll take a hammer over a pin in a fight any day.

[Aaron04]

Thanks for clarifying things to SG, Mike. Please allow me to switch gears. When it comes to stand up fighting, what are your opinions in regards to interceptions and destructions in long range (phase one)? I've noticed that when sparring with someone who knows how to fight, my interceptions often fail. In other words, my interceptions often get destroyed, leading to them pulling off an interception of their own. It seems that in that situation, destructions are the more effective method. Sometimes when sparring with someone who has a lot of experience, I can easily intercept and destroy. But other times, I often fail miserably at intercepting, and my interceptions get destroyed. It seems as though I might be better suited to simply forget about interceptions, as soon as his hands go up, and focus solely on destructions. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks

[SamuraiGuy]

God I'm glad he didnt ask me that interception/destruction question.

As for the pin in the eye, as opposed to a hammer from a disadvantage, thats a very select situation. I said I'll choose a hammer everytime because you never know what the situation is gonna be, and in the VAST VAST majority of fights, a hammer is more useful.

Standup fighting, I'll take the hammer.

Clinch fight, yeah still the hammer, it will be far less effective here, but still more effective than a pin. (fists/elbows/knees are more effective than a pin here)

On your back in the gaurd position, hammer to swing at his head/body.

On top in the gaurd position hammer to swing at his head/body/knees I guess.

Side control from the bottom, both would probably be fairly useless, I suppose maybe the pin in the eye could work if you've got your hands near ihs face, but so could the hammer in hitting him... plus he could always just turn his head from the pin.... I'll say this ones equal and I'm giving that one to you.

Side control from top, HAMMER.

Back control, Hammer. (both ways)

Mount hammer.

Now if your mounted pressed up close to his eye, with both your hands tied up, and a pin in between your teeth, maybe, just maybe its better.

[SamuraiGuy]

My point is although I'm sure its not gonna hurt you to know how to bite people, properly, from every position, or whatever it is you need to learn about biting.

It's of SUCH little importance that its unreasonable to train it.

While you spend time mastering how to bite people, there are people perfecting their jabs and crosses, head movement, sweeps from the gaurd, knife/stick work, awareness techniques, shooting, trapping, destructions, kicks, knees, elbows, clinch work, top game, gaurd passing, throws, takedowns, shots, trips, eye gouges, head butts, kicks to the groin... etc...

When you've mastered all of those things, take up learning how to bite someone.

[PFSofPA]

Has anyone trained with Vunak lately?

I just have to weigh in on one thing. Samurai Guy, with your cute little sayings and your samurai reference, are you in your teens and do you train ground exclusively or does your training consist of mostly video tapes?

The reason I ask, is that people with years of training and/or teaching allow others to have opinions without trashing them or denegrating them. Insecure, immature neophytes believe in absolutes and judging by your posts I suspect you've never been in a street fight.

[SamuraiGuy]

I just have to weigh in on one thing. Samurai Guy, with your cute little sayings and your samurai reference, are you in your teens and do you train ground exclusively or does your training consist of mostly video tapes?

The reason I ask, is that people with years of training and/or teaching allow others to have opinions without trashing them or denegrating them. Insecure, immature neophytes believe in absolutes and judging by your posts I suspect you've never been in a street fight.

With my cute little sayings and Samurai reference....

Okay samurai reference is just a name as I've said many times on this board before. In fact, if you go to sherdog, theres another samuraiguy, except hes got an underscore in his name, its not me, its someone else, whether it was inspired by me, or just made up randomly then good for him, he did just what I did, made it up randomly because I needed a name.

Judging by my post you think I've never been in a street fight, I'll tell you about the last street fight I was in, drunk guy outside a bar got pushed into me by a bouncer, he turned around and said wtf and hit me, the bouncer punched him and he went down. I walked away. WHOOPTY FRIGGING DOOOO,

PFSofPA: "I've been in street fights, I'm an internet tough guy! YAYYYY!!"

Edited by Mike Brewer - What I meant to say here was not "douchebag" but, "scholar and gentleman."

I actually train Judo and boxing primarily for your information, but I also dabble in stickfighting, as for your ground reference I should be getting my blue from Romero Jacare Cavalcanti (probably the most respected BJJ coach in the world) in december.

As for allowing others to have opinions, I do allow others to have opinions you Edit by Mike - moron, and by that, I of course mean, scholar and gentleman, dont you see me discussing this with mike, would i have posted more than once if I wanted to disregard his opinions, no I responded to them, than he responded to mine, we do it civilly, and we dont cry when someone insults what we think, we dont cry when we get burned (admittedly I'm gonna say Brewer burns me alot more than I do him). You ask me if I'm in my teens, I sure am, I'm 19, arent you jealous motherEdit - gentlemanly scholar, perhaps envious of my youth and exhuberance?. From your profile it says your 52, I'm sure you'd rather be 52 than 19. Dont knock me for being in my teens. I also noticed it says you've done Krav Maga for four years, well I've also done Krav Maga for years, arent we all fucking special now.Edit by Mike (SG, you're making this hard for me, here) What I mean is, your background certainly makes you a credible and admirable source on the topic, and I appreciate your input. Its documented that I've done it in this forum too, so look it up if you dont believe me.

Haha, my cute little sayings oh buddy, look at your signature....

"Pain is your friend. Welcome it, embrace it, and then give it back!"

Your a fucking tough guy now, WELCOME THAT SHIT, WELCOME IT BUDDY! Edit...aww hell. I can't fix plain ol' dumb. Sorry. You're on your own with this one.

No one welcomes pain, you go through it if you have to, but unless your a sadistic motherfucker (Do we really need so many F Bombs, SG? Seriously.)you dont welcome pain.

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Oh and Mike, thanks for the Thumbs up recommendation, I appreciate that. Although I probably just discredited what you said about me up there ^^^^.

To be honest I dont actually believe in that philosophy I was just using that as a way to justify not training biting.

I dont do it like that, as I mentioned individual skills, right now I'm just doing boxing and judo as they have extremely similar footwork, and with previous ground skills (that I'm going back to during and after I feel my boxing/judo is up to par) I'm fine with that.

I've really only trained the headbutt for a few hours one day (at my Krav Maga training motherEdit - you're just being belligerent now...(to that guy ^^^^)).

I honestly dont see the biting ever being something useful that I would need to train, and even if I did it, I doubt I would ever do it in a real fight, if you ask me biting is a pretty simple thing like the headbutt you mentioned.

I know you guys have the kino mutai with all the trying to rip flesh and special ways of biting (see I am learned mother fucker, and learned is a word that can be used in that context if your thinking its not ^^^^^) but its just not for me. (Editor's note - if SamuraiGuy had opened with this statement, none of this other embarrassment would have been neccesary. That's a freebie, SG)

As for bothering training to avoid getting bitten, once my older sister (by four years) realized that she couldnt beat me up, she bit the shit out of me one day (we were fighting, wasnt just some random thing), I know it could be coming from just that experience alone. Sure it hurt, but if I had just punched her, (I didnt cause a. shes a woman, b. shes my sister) I could have stopped the whole biting thing, (we were standing at this point).

I'm honestly open to pretty much anything that can be useful to me, but I doubt I'll ever think biting is one of those things, If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, so be it.

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To the PSFofPA, I know you've got a bias towards Biting cause if your PFS you've prolly got some sort of loyalty, background, etc.. to Vunak, I also realize I went off on you, and I'm still gonna post it. I'm not trying to sound important here, but know who your talking to before you start bashing them. Look at the way me and Brewer are discussing this, pretty civilly as I mentioned before, you say people with experience allow others to have opinions, well as far as I'm concerned you just started badmouthing me and discrediting me because my opinion and thoughts on the way you trained werent exactly what you believe.

Hypocritical?

Editor's Final Note -
I hate jumping into other people's posts and rewording them. I really do. Samurai, I'm trying to help you here, so I hope you see it that way. Feel free to go back and edit both of our writings and fix whatever you feel may not "reflect your best work"

[SamuraiGuy]

Edit; double post.

[MMA Apostate]

I just see Kool-Aide drinking Sport MMA people have a hard time seeing any training method worthwhile that is outside there doctrine. It's pointless to argue with them because they actually beleive they hold the Holy Grail of Truth on hand to hand combat. (In my experiences with them)

[PFSofPA]

Has anyone trained with Vunak lately?

Thank you. You proved my point.

[SamuraiGuy]

Thank you. You proved my point.

Act like your taking the high road, and neglect to respond to any of my points, but you know your still a douche bag in the end.

[PFSofPA]

samarai guy

True. You're entitled to your opinions and thoughts. I just don't believe you have a foundation for them as absolutes.
I've been called worse than a douchebag. And most have applied at one time or another.

Keep training.

[georgie]

samurai guy.....you have 1673 posts to your credit which tells me that you spend more time on your ass typing than you do training.....PFSofPA you have 45 posts .....now i would wager you spend more time in the gym than in front of your pc ........no offence to anyone but name calling over a difference of opinion is not a positive contribution to this forum mr. brewer and i hope you do not support this.