Has anyone trained with Vunak lately?

[aseepish]

On Baiting: I like offensive baiting: One thing I like to do from a superior position is to bait the other person's escape. For example, if I'm mounted, I like to fake a choke so that they trap the arm in order to bridge and roll; and then I slide up to a high/S-mount.

[aseepish]

Hmmm... it couldn't have been Thai Bri. He would have just said I was a wanker.

[Aaron04]

Thanks for the posts Mike and aseepish. I'm aware of the fact that biting is definetly not the be-all end-all in ground fighting. I would definetly prefer not to bite during a fight for obvious reasons.

I've noticed that it's very difficult to describe or understand grappling techniques on an internet forum, so I don't really want to get too much into the technical stuff.

When I spar standing up, I'm known for being sneaky. I want to develop that type of sneakiness on the ground as well. Do either of you have any recommendations for grappling videos, books or websites that most closely fit the PFS mentality?

Thanks

[Aaron04]

Thank you. I checked out Jean Jacques Machado's website, and it looks pretty interesting. I'm thinking about signing up for the online lessons.

I'm between jobs right now, so going to LA is not really possible.

Of all the well known grapplers, who's game is closest to yours and Paul's? I wish he would simply make a few videos about ground fighting!

Thanks

[Aaron04]

Thanks. When I roll, I try to balance sport and street together. I know there are some differences, but I think it of course helps to have a good sport base, then modify it for the street.

When I last trained with Paul, he was very insistient that I start teaching people. Now I'm thinking about actually doing that. He said that I would increase my skill exponentially if I started teaching. It seems that it would help me rise to the occasion. Has that been your experience?

Thanks

[HERQ454]

Mike,I know you have great respect for Vu but who else in your time in Pfs did you rate or respect for their physical skillls or mental approach,etc when you trained with them?Would we know them?

[Tant01]

Old school.. My buddy Hal has a few interesting stories about training with Vu.

Hal actually introduced Vu to BJJ and the Gracie Family...

He says he kept it a secret for like 6 months that he was training with Rickson. And used it against his JKD buddies including Paul.

After class sessions were over the top back in the day...

Good times! LOL Wish I had been there!

[HERQ454]

Thats Hal Falkner,is that right?Matt Thornton mentions his name in Functional JKD #1 as the guy who with Vunak showed the JKD scene the BJJ style.Would like to know how he came accross the Gracies and what his first impressions of it was.

[Aaron04]

Hi Mike, sorry for not thanking you or posting any new questions lately, I've been kinda busy. I will post a few new ones soon. Thanks again, it's been a great thread.

[Aaron04]

Thanks. OK, here's another one please. I was watching my Kino Mutai video recently, and I actually did the entire flow drill. I don't know if you have that video or not, but if not, it basically is a Sumbrada flow drill that starts in side control position, and you and your partner use KM while continuously changing positions. I found it very useful, my open rolling game seemed to improve after only doing it a few times (without using the KM techniques). Are there any particular drills like that that you like to use (with or without KM techniques)?

Thanks

[gregimotis]

This is a spectacular thread.

I asked Mr. Brewer once before, but I hope no one else minds that I'm copying the whole thing and putting it in my 'Best of Defend.net' file.

[Aaron04]

Great post, thanks. When I referred to the flow drill on the Kino Mutai video, I was basically referring to a BJJ/KM flow drill for training on the ground. It involves flowing from one BJJ position to another, using KM to help facilitate the transition from each position. The only one I've done before was the very basic one that Paul teaches, the one where one person mounts, the bottom person upa's to the guard, then passes the guard, and then mounts. Then the other person does the same process, and they go back and forth.

The BJJ/KM flow drill on the video was far more in depth, with about 15 total movements from position to position. I was very impressed with how it seemed to have improved my positioning game on the ground during rolling, despite having only done the drill a few times. I also noticed that I would be far more proficient with KM if it were a streetfight as well.

In class, we have done drills that involved armbars from the guard, and some simple drills similar to that, but none that involved actual positioning. I'm starting to think that my school sucks, lol.

I would imagine that when you lived with him, you probably did something similar as well. I'm sure you may have developed some other ones as well. Do you have any ground-specific drills to help the development of attributes on the ground?

Thanks

[Aaron04]

So you basically just rolled with him to develop attirbutes on the ground? That's pretty much all I've done as well. But I'm definetly going to do the flow drill before I roll a few times. I'm thinking that's the key to getting better on the ground.

As far as drills go, did you do a lot of energy drills while training stand up? When I trained with him, we didn't really do any. I've noticed him doing a lot of them on his Streetfighting series though. Hubbud, Chi Sao, Lop sao (spelling), etc. Do you think they are somewhat antiquated? We basically stuck with the de-fanging drill for knife fighting. I think that's a great one for long range sparring and fighting. I know the others are for trapping range.

So with energy drills in general, do you think they are worthwhile?

Thanks

[Aaron04]

BTW, if you (or others) want, I can post the Sumbrada flow drill for the ground. It's pretty good.

[Aaron04]

So your thoughts are that Chi Sao, Hubud, lop sao, etc are not worth training? I know the Streetfighting Series came out in the early 90s, and I trained with Vu more than 10 years later. We didn't go over any of those drills. Do you think that's because they're antiquated or because he thought I wasn't ready for them, or both?

Here's the flow drill:

Start with your partner on top, in side control. Upa and slide down, and secure your opponent with your arms, and bite his chest.

He creates space, allowing you to pull guard. Secure his head with a neck crank (reverse rear naked choke), and bite his face.

He stands up, with his head still secure, so his rear is up, allowing you to put your feet on his hips, and you sweep him directly over your head, allowing you to mount.

From the mount, you bite his face.

He upa's. He is then in your guard, and slides his head down to your chest, and bites your chest.

You loosen up the guard, and he pins your biceps, head butts, and stands up. He then punches your groin, and passes your guard.

He then goes to knee on stomach, and punches a few times.

Then he goes to side control. He then bites your face, you counter by pushing his head up and away, he counters by biting your chest, and you counter his bite by pushing his head down, then he counters by biting your groin. You counter by hipping away from his bite.

He immediately goes to knee on stomach. He then punches your face with the same hand that is on your stomach, causing you to turn over, face down.

He then takes the rear mount.

He then rolls you over, face up, but keeping the rear mount, and then pounds his heels into your groin, causing you to cover your groin. He then goes for the rear naked choke position, and bites your neck.

You counter by grabbing his choking wrist with your near hand, and grabbing his choking shoulder with your other hand. Grabbing in both places helps to secure his choking arm better. You also slide your mouth down his choking arm, and bite.

He loosens his rear mount, allowing you to spin and face him. You are now in his guard. As you face him, one of your arms gets caught inside his leg, allowing him to attempt a triangle.

As he goes for the triangle, you sit up, getting a solid base, and bite his choking leg. He loosens up on the triangle, allowing you to remove his leg.

You pass the leg over, towards his face, and break the guard and go to side control.

At this point, you are back to the beginning, with you on top in side control. Your partner then begins the drill, this time starting on the bottom, going through all the positions, but from the opposite position.