which is better jkd conepts or the original

[Happy Cat]

There is nothing wrong with pointing out the history. And from your response it does not sound like you were unaware of it.

This whole discussion reminds me of the 40 year war back in Germany. Good meaning Protestants and Catholics back then tried to meet to work things out, but it always ended rather badly for one side or the other. As much as you and I might try to have a decent conversation, there is always a view that the other side is just plane wrong.

Now If I did karate, we would not have a problem with each other. It is the name JKD that is the source of our dispute. Frankly Bruce predicted all of this. He said “do not make a fuss over it.”. And yet here we are decades later.

And yes, all those MMA schools will keep saying JKD, JKD, because it is great for marketing. Maybe the OJKD guys should just give up the field and call our stuff “Not JKD.” Or maybe “les conceptual JKD.” After all, the “Concepts” people outnumber us, so why should they change the name. Again, it is only a name. Don’t get too excited.

[Happy Cat]

I agree. My Sifu does not use the words JKD. he has been around long efuff to see the problems those words can bring.

The other problem with the words JKd is that it brings up all kinds of "Bruce" issues.

[Jujujason]

I don't know if this post is even necessary since the two Mike's have done and always do a fine job of laying out the 'concepts' arguments, but my biggest concerns are twofold. First, it never ceases to amaze me how the 'orginal' camp always presumes that sijo Bruce would have remained as he was during the 60's. I challenge any 'orginal' student to name one human being during his/her lifetime that didn't continue to learn and evolve with new experiences. Just one human being in the history of all human beings to include sijo Bruce is all I ask.

Additionally, it irks me to no end how people insinuate that guro Dan promotes kali (or muay thai, silat, savate, shoot, bjj, basket-weaving, etc.) as anything (to include jkd) other than what they are. Guro holds all of his martial arts teacher (not just sijo Bruce) in very high regard. To label muay Thai or Lacoste kali as 'jkd' is disrespectful to ajarn Sirisute or guro John Lacoste. Sifu Dan just doesn't conduct himself in this manner.

The fact is that guro has and will continue to study different arts. He feels (rightfully so) that he has a responsibility to his students to expose them to different arts, either for practical or artistic (yes, I said artistic) purposes so we can become well-rounded martial artists and individuals. Finally, the O's can try to engage in revisionist history all they want, but the simple fact of the matter is that guro Dan (NOT ANYONE ELSE) is sijo Bruce's highest ranking student in jkd and was the guy that sijo Bruce personally put in charge of the Chinatown school. The O's especially should be the most fervent defenders of guro's leadership since you absolutely will not question or second-guess any other decision that was made by sijo Bruce during his lifetime. Why should that one decision be any different?

[Happy Cat]

well, I am sure your Sifu did what he thought was right. How can I question his path. Nor have I ever heard anyone question his ability.

Bruce would have evolved. he did every day.

[Happy Cat]

By "Bruce" issues I mean the kind of religious hero worship that Mike Brewer reserd to, and which jujujason apears to thin I suffer from.

Ther is also the issue of peolpe who feel intimidated by the name JKD, and who feel a need to deride Bruce.

So when I am with non JKD people I try not to sue those words

[Guest]

JKD, in whatever form you choose to name it, is an art and philosophy enjoyed the world over by hundreds of thousands of people. There is no problem with JKD, except those created in the minds and opinions I have read on this thread.

Draw a line under Mike Brewer and Jujujason’s posts, which I would love to have written if only I was that articulate and patient.

[g-bells]

[QUOTE=Mike Brewer;283258]No need for all of us to be articulate, Michael. The world needs stuttering, knuckle-dragging badasses as well.

mr brewer,

you talking about me again

[Happy Cat]

Mike Brewer, you make several good points. My "issue" is simply that in order for words to have any meaning there must be some type of consensus about that meaning. As I mentioned earlier, My Sifu, who is obviously wiser than me, will not call what we do JKD because of the difficulty in the terminology, and the politicks. Some of his students may be resisting it, but our discussion has helped convinced me that he is right.

I have looked over the posts and I do agree that what Sifu Dan has done is in the sprit of JKD. And perhaps "JKD Concepts" is as good a name as any for it. Already however there is such diversity between what people are doing under that name that even "concepts" will hold no recognized meaning in a few years.

"Original JKD" on the other hand is not a good a name for what I do, because it has and does evolve and adapt. I can not vouch for what is being taught by the Nucleolus. I am afraid the discussion is a lot like that between 17th century Protestants and Catholics. And both sides are in the process of further fragmentation.

I have recently, when asked, told people that what I am a student of is just some Kung Fu that a couple of guys made up in their garage. And that is true. And no one gives me any flack about it. Of course those two guys, BL and JL were really something special.

And maybe all of this is for the good. If the “pathless path” is a personal journey, perhaps there is no reason to guide students along a particular road. And perhaps that is why Bruce closed the schools in LA and Seattle (although I think that personal reasons were a factor there as well).

Over and Out.

[fenwick99]

re:

When it gets right down to it, there is nothing special about boxing out of a right lead and mixing in some rudimentary wing chun.

"There is nothing special in this art. Take things as they are.
Punch when you have to punch, kick when you have to kick."

However, even if this is all jkd is, it was a great innovation. Why?
1. Many boxers are spooked by southpaws, and some will lose to a southpaw of inferior ability.
2. Many right-handed people are more coordinated in throwing the left thai kick out of a rigth lead stance.
3. Grapplers who get into MMA often shoot off of the strong side.
4. The right step jab has knockout power, which is more critical for the street than the ring.
5. The right lead is better for defense, and not getting hit at all is more important for the street than the ring.
6. Some footwork patterns are much easier to do strong-side lead.
7. Many great boxers, including Oscar de la Hoya, have used strong side forward.

In my view, Bruce was a genius, but , as has been said, more like a great sculptor than a painter. Instead of creating a wondrous new world, Bruce hacked away the inessentials so that the true essence of combat could be revealed.

If you were his direct student, of course you picked up little things and nuances that can't be duplicated, but anyone can work with his ideas and create an individual path.

[Guest]

If I may fenwick, from a technical point of view that’s a pretty awful analysis of what JKD is. The notion of right lead boxing and some rudimentary Wing Chun is a very narrow summary of early Jun Fan, probably early Oakland period. It evolved on a daily basis throughout Mr Lee’s lifetime way beyond that, and over the last 35 years has evolved beyond measure into the multifaceted martial arts matrix we see today.

However I do fully agree with you sir that anyone can adopt Mr Lee’s ideas and philosophies and develop their own individual path in the arts – that is what I see around me, that is exactly what JKD is.