Bullies

[MikeJKD]

Hey folks...Here's one to chew on.

I have a student who is a high school sophomore. He just started training about two months ago, and the kid is a walking example of natural attributes. He's already a varsity player in just about every sport at his school, from football to basketball to baseball and soccer, and from what I understand, can outplay most of the seniors on his teams. My only problem (up until yesterday) with his training was teaching him how to relax and pace himself a little when he fights. Yesterday, however, I found out that he has got one of the worst bully problems I've ever heard of. I had my fair share of bullies in school, but this is unreal. Listen to what this kid has put up with:
He's been held by three guys while a fourth beat him down,
He's been thrown from the top level of the bleachers at school all the way to the bottom
He's been beaten over the head with bottles
He's been LIT ON FIRE!!
and he's regularly attacked in the halls.
Apparently, this has gone on so long that he's afraid to do anything to defend himself, and it's the reason he signed up for classes. His confidence is shot, and he says that he only feels safe here at the gym, at home, and at church. The kid is a devout and religious Christian, and he actually preaches with his father who is an evangellist. He's gone to his parents, who have gone to the school administration, and nothing has been done. The other day, a kid even pulled a switchblade on him. This is all happening, mind you, at a christian school! Up until now, I've been teaching him mainly a mix of Jun Fan Gung Fu and Brazilian Jiujutsu, but due to his age, I've kept some of the more dangerous tools away from him. Now, I'm so furious about the situation, I want to teach him nothing but elbows, headbutts, eye gouges, and knife tactics! I know that his problem is largely psychological at this point, but his self-image is shot and he won't use the stuff he's learning, even if it means an ass kicking every day. What do you guys think I should do to make him realize that defending himself is not only okay, but it's the right thing to do, and that these punks won't stop until he floors one of them? Saying it to him isn't enough, and I'm struggling to find a good way to relate it in a way that will make him attach to the idea and act next time he's assaulted. I'm not terribly religious, and with his faith, I think that may be the way to go, but I'm at a loss. Opinions are greatly appreciated.
Mike

[tufwheel]

There is a continuing debate in the Christian community about whether studying a martial art and defending yourself biblically sound. From what little I have heard on the subject from Christians it is O.K., but you need someone with better Bible knowledge to help you. As far as the psychological aspect of it is concerned, that is exactly Tony Blauer's specialty. There is a tape called "Cerebral self defense," it deals with the psychological aspect of combat. It teaches you how to avoid the fear that paralyzes you in that moment when a confrontation starts. I strongly recommend you get it for yourself and especially for him. The principals are not things you do instead of JKD, they are principals that help to mentally free you up so that you can use your JKD, or other art, effectively. You should get it for him. If I knew the kid, I would send him mine...

Tufwheel

[MikeJKD]

Thanks. And for everyone else, keep em coming, please.
Mike

[JKDMAN]

My name is Andrew. I am a martial artists and a licensed minister. I am studying Greek and Hebrew to understand the literal meaning of scripture. I train in Jeet Kune Do Concepts and Filipino martial arts with Thomas C. Cruse. I also train Kenpo with Jody Sasaki (a strong Christian) I also study jui jitsu, and a few other arts. The bible says though shall not kill true enough, but the word kill there means "to kill in cold blood. " The bible gives examples of when it is ok to kill such as when defending yourself, your family, etc. If it is ok to kill in those circumstances than it is ok to use a knee lift, elbows, eye gouges, etc. or even weapons to defend yourself. Point of fact, here are some examples of martial artists and martial arts in the bible. Jacob (Israel) grappled the pre-incarnate Christ. Moses was a stick fighter. I would like to point out that He was trained by the Egyptian elite who were the best in world at stick work. He was in line to be a Pharaoh. King David killed many times under God's direct Command. Jesus, himself, hand-made a whip and beat the money changers out of the temple. There are many more examples if you need more examples e-mail me at Jkdcatifs@aol.com

[gungfuhero]

From the point of view of a catholic JKD practitioner, violence is only morally wrong if it is unwarranted. Being savagely beaten, threatened with knives and lit on fire (that is the most *&%ed up thing I've ever heard of) certainly warrants self defense and whatever level of violence is needed to preserve his life. In a spiritual sense, he shouldn't fight to hurt his enemies, but he should fight as hard and fiercely as he has to. I know it sounds like semantics, but personally it makes a big difference.

This is the kind of school violence that never makes the news.

Has he tried to get any help from the police?

[dan downard]

Does this guy have any friends?Get him to bring in a couple of his friends to train with him.Free on your part to get them to come in.
Guys he can hang with at school.He is being attacked by more than one guy at a time.He needs friends.Friends that can fight.
By not fighting back,he has let it escalate to the point they think he is a target to mess with. Not much else he can do other than to move.Packing heat is only going to make something bad happen for sure.
They already have him targeted.He needs to challange the leader in public and stomp him into a puddle.But,he will need backup to do it.Just to keep others from jumping in.
That's the way I see it.Move or get it on.If not,it will continue.
Just my thoughts.

[phillyman]

bullies

Gettting bullied is not fun at all. I am 32 years old and i an 5 feet 7 inches tall and olny weigh 140 pounds no imagine how small i was in high school. I use to get bullied a lot and its no fun. I was scared to fight cause i would get the crap beat out of me. I wish back then at some point i would have fought back. I think my self esteem is still a little shot so to speak. However back then i didnt have to worry about getting stabbed. Thats a hard question to answer. Him fighting back may make him get hurt bad in an altercation or make the bullies think this guy is gonna fight back so i better move on. For me the answer would have been to learn to kick booty and take names. Let me know how it goes.

[JKDMAN]

Here is a thought : If he has issues with fighting, approach the issue from the aikido stand point. Teach him how to neutralize the attacks and use the jui jitsu concept of pain compliance. By using aikido principals he can learn to use their own energy against them and then he can apply joint locks, pressure points manipulation and nerve manipulation to stop and neutralize their attacks. There are the nerves that when hit hard enough can cause momentary lose of use in a limb or even knock someone out. These things along with chokes and aikido redirection principals can enable him to handle the assaults without causing anyone any real harm. I am handicapped and as a result got into a few scraps in Grade School - High School and using these principals I was able to handle most attacks. In High School people only want pick on those that cannot and/or will not defend themselves. If he can guide one into a wall or get one in a joint lock in front of people and humiliate them odds are they will stop. Then and only then if they still come after him will he ever be able to really defend himself by breaking their noses or kneeing their ribs, using head-butts, etc. because then he will know he tried the peaceful defense, where no one got seriously hurt, and they still came after him.

[DavinWest]

Big

I am 6'4, around 290 lbs, I always got the crap kicked out of me in school. I never knew how to fight, once they learned that I was this huge abuse target. Than I started learning martial arts, and I had to deal with the whole as a Christian should I do this or not? but I believe it is biblically correct to defend yourself. For me it ended with just a push back and the guy fallls down and he look really dumb in front of everyone. After that I decieded, fighting back is good sometimes, but as a Christian I believe that under Gods protection no harm will come to me but which is allowed by God for my betterment. I really enjoy fighting now, which is not really a good thing, cuz I get in alot of trouble now. but anywayz my point over all is, I think its awesome that your helping this kid. more kids need people like you out there.

[SOG]

Smell Test

MikeJKD,

The whole debate of Christians in JKD is a non-issue for me. However, the STORY you told does not pass the smell test.

I do not believe the kid you describe exists. How can a sophomore kid be both a "varsity player in just about every sport at his school" and be "afraid to do anything to defend himself" because "his confidence is shot?" It just does not smell right.

I think you made up that story to set the stage for a debate.

[Demi Barbito]

First of all, I too am a Christian. I love the Lord.

There is nothing wrong at all with defending yourself!

The problem stated above is not about self defense. It is a criminal problem. Criminal acts of violence have been purpotrated on this boy and the police need to be in volved. His parents, school administration and the police. Anyone he tells these things to should contact the school administration and voice their concern.

Learning to defend himself "might" solve the acute problem but not the chronic problem.

He does not yet have the proper judgement capabilities to learn advanced technical aspects of counter violence at this age anyway.

What about the knuckleheads who are doing this to him. Who else are they doing it to? Someone needs to get in there are straighten them out, for the long term so we all don't have to support them in prison, where the spinless liberal cowards will put them after they rape and murder someone, instead of terminating their exsistance.

[MikeJKD]

Unfortunately, the story, and the kid, are totally real. Actually, his success with sports and his natural attributes are what threw me off when he started describing his problems to me. I wish it were a made up thing, because I think a lot of us here can relate to the bully situation, but this one is straight from the files of truth. But then again, that may well be why he's gotten ignored by the people he's asked for help. They probably see a gifted athletic high-schooler who should have all the confidence in the world. Well, maybe he should, but he doesn't, and unfortunately for him, the image adults are seeing may be what's stopping them from getting more involved. It's a shame that nobody wants to pay attention until the kid actually becomes a whipped dog, cowering at everyone around him.

And for all those who posted over the last week, I have a meeting with his dad today to discuss the direction I want to take his training. We're going to discuss the emotional and psychological aspects of what's going on, and then I'm going to suggest that his dad allow me to go into some of our more proven "fight stoppers" like the headbutts, knees, and elbows, eye gouges, and so on. May not be too politically correct, but screw it. I'm tired of hearing about him getting his ass kicked, and I'm sure that, deep down, he's pretty tired of having it happen. You guys have been a lot of help. Keep it coming.
Bahala Na,
Mike

[MikeJKD]

By the way Demi...

Demi,
Just thought I'd let you know, the lead officer for our city's gang intervention task force is a student of mine, and he's aware of the situation. He'll be at this young man's private lesson tomorrow, and will talk to his father about what's going on and what needs to be done. I appreciate the advice.
Mike

[Ryu (non-working password]

What a nice thread...(well it's terrible what's happening, but wonderful that people are trying to come together)

I think the best thing right now is exactly what you are doing. Thinking things through, and discussing the problem with police, parents, and the boy in general.
I believe the varsity at 14 stuff, because of a young man in my judo school who fits the same description. I know a 14 year old who has been wrestling since 2nd grade, is 170 pounds, and wrestles varsity with 17 year old seniors in high school...and wins.
He's very good, but unfortunately the first day I met him he seemed to be bullying the other kids at the school who were really no match for him. I offered to grapple with him, and made sure to keep him down, always stay on top, pin him, etc. I'm obviously much older and stronger, but I wanted him to see what it was like when a stronger person "bullied" someone who had no real chance. I was gentle of course, but now the kid is one of the friendliest people to work with. He's no longer bullying the younger people there.
As a religious person (I am very into Buddhism as well as Christianity..) I do not think for an instant that passivity is a good philosophy in matters of self-defense, protecting others, or judging good and bad, etc.
The boy in question needs to let you know what he's really feeling. You have to let him tell you what this really makes him feel like, and explain to him the importance of sticking up for himself. Unfortunately...you have to be careful. Just because he defends himself doesn't mean the attacks will stop...if someone is willing to set fire to him..they're probably willing to kill him.
This sounds like an extremely difficult situation, and I hope you keep us posted on it.
My advice would be to do what you're doing. Teach him, talk with him, and let the school and police know what's going on. The decision to fight is going to be his and his alone.
Teaching him knife fighting, etc....is okay but... it's a whole different world. If he pulls a knife on three guys trying to beat him up, and they get it away from him....

Please keep me posted on what happens. You are doing the right thing in my mind (and you also care a great deal...this is something very good. )

Ryu

[Oldskulbus]

I've got a little story to tell...

My Grandfather had moved to a new town his freshman year in highschool and didn't know anyone. The first couple of days he realized that he was going to get bullied buy the jocks at the school (he was like 5'4" and really skinny) so he decided to "attack" all the bullies at his school in a really twisted way.
So one day at lunch break he went up to the biggest, meanest senior football player the kids talked about at school. My grandfather spit in his face and then proceded to punch him and kick him as hard as he could. The jock was kinda surprised and my grandfather actually did some damage before the guy came to his sences and then proceded to beat my grandfather into a bloody pulp.
It was a crazy thing to do but it had the desired result. Everyon at the school thought he was so crazy that no one bullied him and in fact everyone went out of their way to be really nice to him.