Bullies

[MikeJKD]

Update...

Well, guys, I have an update on the situation... I met with his Dad last Friday, and we worked on a lot of repetitions of ballistic, fight ending tools. Gavin (the young man's name) did really well, and trained with a lot of focus. He seems to be getting more serious about making these assholes stop picking on him, and it's good to see. But something a little strange happened when I started talking to his Dad.
Gavin got really nervous when I brought it up to his dad, and his dad mentioned that Gavin had told him about our conversation...that I knew all about what was going on, and that I was taking things very seriously. However, hid father treated the whole thing with a lot less concern than I would have expected. He basically dismissed it all, saying that these guys were picking on him out of jealousy because he is so good at sports, and "all the girls like him." He didn't think it was "serious enough" to get the police involved, and that it was just boys being boys. I told him what I thought the reality of it was, and I let him talk to one of my students who is a cop. Even at the officer's advice, his dad just didn't think it was all that serious. Now, maybe he doesn't see what's happening, and maybe Gavin has blown a few things out of proportion, but I have seen the scars this kid has from being burned, having his head split open and stitched shut again, and various other attacks he's faced, and I don't care what anyone thinks about boys being boys...that shit ain't okay. So, I talked to the police officer and asked for advice, and he said that without specific names and grievances, the police are limited, but that he'd personally visit the school and talk to the administration. Also, he recommended that Gavin start defending himself when attacked, and that he do so with as much force is necessary. His next lesson is Wednesday, and I'm planning on seeing how the week has been. If it's bad, me and the cop are both going to visit Gavin's school. I'll keep you all posted, and thanks for the input. It's really helped both of us. BTW, Skul, your grandpa sounds like a mean s.o.b.!! Much Respect!
Mike

[dan downard]

You think he is getting bullied now,wait till they find out a cop has been sent to the school.He will start being harrased by people who would never have cared one way or another.JMO.

[MikeJKD]

In all fairness, Dan, I'd be able to justify him getting in a fight over it (remember, he's not just "tattling" here...he's learning how to take care of it himself as well) if it means not having to justify going to this kid's funeral. People can say "it's not that serious" all they want to, but the fact is, people get killed in situations like this one. Jokes that go too far, one of those shoves down the bleachers that breaks his neck instead of just splitting his head open, the kid that pulled the knife on him having a bad day and shoving the knife into his neck...Putting off the problem doesn't help. I understand your opinion, but at this point, the police have an OBLIGATION to get involved. And to my knowledge, there is no obvious connection between their visit to the school and Gavin's situation. They aren't going in saying "That kid squealed, and now we're pissed." They're talking to administrators about cmplaints, problems, and what has been done in the past. It's my hope that these kids lay off and quit picking on him altogether, but if it comes to it, I want Gavin to feel totally in the right smashing these creeps' faces in. And if that takes establishing a long and detailed paper trail justifying his actions, so be it.
Mike

[dan downard]

Did you think about inviting the bullies to train?Might change the way they think if you can get them in there.They may find that they arent that tough and maybe actually get them working out together.Just a thought.obviously there is no simple answer.

[SOG]

Smell Test

MikeJKD

If you did not make-up the story, then someone is not being completely honest with you.

The kid may have scars, but no father thinks being held down and beaten, thrown from the top of the bleachers, beaten over the head with bottles, and lit on fire is just boys being boys.

If that stuff was going on, the administration at that private Christian school would jump on those kids with both feet, either because it is the right thing to do or out of self interest. If word got out that the administration was allowing bullies to rule the school, the other parents would flee with their kids and tuition to another school.

[MikeJKD]

Sog,
I know you're having a really hard time with this and all, but that's the reason it's so tough to deal with. None of the things that one thinks of as "normal reactions" are showing up. It's a screwed up situation any way you look at it. His parents are concerned (that's why he's training here...) and I have also found out that they are pretty angry with him about not sticking up for himself, which might explain why his dad is being so stand-offish. To be honest, I don't know why he isn't more concerned. And if parents were to find out that this school were letting bullies run the place, they might very well be inclined to do something...that's why we're bringing it to their attention. As Dan's reply a few posts up shows, there are a lot of people that think they'll only make a situation worse by bringing it out in the open, and to be honest, I'm not entirely sure that this is an epidemic type of thing. I think it's probably a few isolated cases, with Gavin being one of the more severe. What you have to realize here is that things are different than when we were kids. The last fight I had in High school was a couple of punches long, and that's the last time it was brought up. Anymore, kids get their asses kicked, and show up with friends and guns. People's attitudes and approaches to violent behavior have gotten to a point that denial is the best therapy. It just doesn't wash. Everyone in this kid's life is downplaying how severe the situation is, even when he tells them how unsafe he feels...Is it a fear of getting involved? I don't know. What I do know is that this kid's self-image is the most important thing he can have, and no matter what anyone else thinks, he needs to have the tools, and the support to build it back. And, whether you believe it or don't, I'll keep you posted.
Mike

[MikeJKD]

By the way, Dan, no, I hadn't really entertained the thought of inviting these kids in to train, mostly because I'd be inclined to beat the living shit out of them, and because it would no doubt have a very ill effect on Gavin's faith and trust in me. These kids are the reason he's scared at school, and I think inviting them into one of just three places that Gavin feels at ease would make things tough. Maybe these kids need martial arts more than most BECAUSE of their attitudes, but at the moment, my outrage at their behavior probably makes me the wrong guy to handle it. Thanks for the thought though...
Mike

[Ryu (non-working password]

MikeJKD,
I have no answers for you, but I do want to wish you and your student the best of luck in this case. Fathers are probably the most important element in a boy's life, and since the father is showing no real interest...well what can I say? I'm not sure what else you can do (besides seeking these boys out yourself personally) But these situations are extremely difficult, and need a cool head to deal with. Young people are sometimes depraved of the compassion they need to function as caring individuals, and simply breaking their faces is probably not the "turn around" they will need. Still though, the boy must defend himself, and he has to take action himself as well. He can't let everyone defend him, this might be what is making him a target.
Keep teaching him, keep having him spar, let him grapple, let him pin guys up against the wall and headbutt, etc. Teach him realistically of course, but at the same time let him know that just because he fights back might not end it either.
You're doing all you can it seems, and that's to be applauded. Keep us posted, and maybe you should investigate the situation a little yourself?
I'm not in your place, so I can't really give good advice.

Take care,
Ryu

[Oldskulbus]

It is a tough one..

The problem with your situation MikeJKD is that its so hard to solve the situation without fear of the bullies getting angry and doing something drastic. Even if your student Gavin defended himself it might anger them and make them do something drastic. You have to look for a way to solve the problem with no lose ends. It involves a really good understanding of the bullies and why they are attacking Gavin. The root of the problem needs to get solved. Or the punks need to be so afraid of your protege that they have nightmares of what he could do to them if they ever attack him again. BUt the first option is probably more lawful even though it will be harder for you to do. Just my thoughts...

[Dave.H.]

SO WHAT?

Hey everybody,

In my personal opinion on this subject, I think religion doesn't mean a damn thing! Don't get me wrong here I'm not insulting anyone's religion. What I mean is religion has nothing to do with defending yourself or fighting back. Catholic, Devil Worshippers, Jewish or Jehovahs Witness - if you're getting beat up or hurt, you have every right in the world to protect yourself by any means necessary.
I actually experienced the same thing with one of my students. He was being threatened daily by his neighbor, who by the way was a "tough, leather wearing, harley riding" biker. My student was complaining to me at every class, things like: "Today he said he would smash me in the face!" or "He was poking me in the chest and saying I better watch myself!" I finally had enough of this crap and I took him aside one said and layed it on the table. I told him, "Listen bro, what the hell are you training with me for?" He said, "To build confidence and to defend myself!" I responded, "Well, you have the tools and you have the knowledge, - now just apply them together!" He questioned, "What if I stand up to him and I get beat up though?" I told him, "You'll never no until you try, even if you do get 'beat up' you have built up that confidence a bit and you'll know for next time what you need to do different!" With that he left class. The following week he came running into class all excited, "Guess what?" he said. "The guy came up to me and I stood up to him in the parking lot of my apartment" I asked him to tell me what happened and he told me that when the guy had approached him that day, he stood his ground and when the guy got in his face. He told him he was tired of his bullying and he wanted it to stop. The guy got cocky and started to poke my student in the chest. My student side stepped with a Pak Sao and sent the guy stumbling a few steps and told him the next time he put his hands on him he would return the favour. The biker just walked away.
Now of course all situations will not be as easily handled but you have to stand up for yourself eventually or people will just walked all over you.
Again, this is just my opinion and I have been known to be wrong once in my life.
-Dave.H.-

[MikeJKD]

Update...

Gavin came in for his private lesson yesterday, and I worked the hell out of him on headbutts, knees and elbows, and we did a bunch of scenario training with FIST gear on to see how he'd react under pressure. I'm happy to report that he did really well. The training was loud, verbally abusive, and I made things tough on him, but he came through. He was really hesitant at first, because I didn't tell him I'd be yelling at him and threatening him, and I think it caught him off guard. He has told me that getting cussed at makes him really mad, so I threw in some foul language and insults, and he just turned it on. He applied everything quite well, and I think he made a big leap in getting over his fear of losing the fight. For those of you with FIST gear...I was wearing the heavy thigh pad, and once or twice, when he laid that thai kick on, it actually stung through that pad! We talked things through at the end of the lesson, and he said thathis dad is being more supportive, but still has a hard time with Gavin's reluctance to take things into his own hands. His dad was always something of a scrapper growing up, and apparently just doesn't relate very well to why Gavin isn't defending himself. His mother, on the other hand, is such a pacifist that his attending classes literally gives her nervous fits. She seems to think he'll get killed learning martial arts, and really doesn't support his training. His dad is adamant about it though, so he will still be coming in twice a week. Slowly but surely, I am seeing more self-confidence from Gavin, and maybe these bullies will too. Hopefully that will be enough to remedy the situation, but if it isn't, that thigh kick of his could very well do the job! More to come...
Mike

[Ryu (non-working password]

How much does FIST gear cost?

Ryu

[MikeJKD]

Cost of Fist Gear, and UPDATE

Ryu,
we had ours donated to us, but I understand it's in the neighborhood of $500 for a suit. You can get the helmet and thigh pads for around $200 though.

As for the thread, Gavin threw his hip out of place doing power kicks and had to cancel his last private lesson. He'll be in on Wednesday, and I'll let you all know what's up.

Mike

[Abishai]

I was bullied all the way though grade school, junior high and part of high school. I can SO empathize with this guy. During my sophmore year I moved across the country to a VERY large high school in a major city. I decided that when I got there I was not going to be bullied any longer and the first person that even started to look at me cross I was going to fight like mad even if it means I got beat bloody every day. There were huge mean people in my new school and I never got messed with again. I believe it was my attitude shift of fighting full out right away that the bullies could just see and left me alone for other targets. Bullies dont want to bully someone that fights full out right away. They are looking for fun and the gratification of ego that they can push around someone and get away with it because they are who they are. I went through the whole " I am a Christain, so I cant fight" stage in junior high and got nothing but misery for it while I was abused every day. I am a usher in my church now and I will fight to defend myself or someone else and think nothing of it. God has given us things to be responsible for, ourselves and people around us that are weaker than us. We are shirking our responsiblity to care for them and us if we let these things go on.
Teach this guy to fight for all he is worth. If he gets some friends and they as a group defend him, the bullies will just wait to catch him alone, plus his self estem will be dependant on his friends. He needs to be able to feel confident when he is alone. At some point his frustration level will excede his fear level and he will explode into his tormentors and I pity them on that day. That will also be the last day he is tormented and the begining of his self estem growth.
Abishiai <---biblical name look it up

[MikeJKD]

Good advice Abishai...
I hadn't really considered the dependancy on his friends, but it's an extremely valid point. I think he's making a lot of progress, in both skill level and his attitude toward applying it. He told me in his last lesson that he got picked on once last week, but that it was just words. I asked him if he felt confident enough in his skills to defend himself yet, and he said, no, but that he would do it anyway if things went that far. I guess that's a step in the right direction. He's supposed to be in later today, so we'll see how things have progressed.
More to come...
Mike