Who is John McNabney what are his credentials?

[John McNabney]

I'm new to this JKD thing,

What does 2nd Generation Jeet Kune Do Instructor mean?

And is there any certification or who certifies you to be classified as this?

This is a little foreign to me for being classified as this. There are no pictures or documentation on his website concerning his background.

Can someone please provide me some further input on this?

There are a lot of people saying they are the official JKD instructors out there who are just living a lie and I just need some info from independent variable sources so I can research the truth just a little more.

Thanks

Woo --- Wee! I don't like writing long post, but here we go....LOL

I didn’t no I was that important to set off another lame-o azz debate on JKDC vs OJKD, LOL ... Oh, by the way this isn’t the 90’s or the early 2000’s…The cat is out of the bag, LOL

Here you are since people want my story:

First of all let me say that I have been training in martial arts most of all my life... My father was one of the guys that brought back Karate to America, after WW2... He never opened a school though... When I use to watch "Green Hornet" back in the day, I was one of those kids flying off the couch kicking everything... Then my Dad started showing me stuff... I've been training in "old school karate" since 1969... I was into "Kato" (Bruce Lee) way before I ever heard of Jeet Kune Do... The first time I have of JKD was in 1971... Since, than I have tried to research everything about BL... My goal at the time was to train with BL after High School... I was going to Cali to train with him... BL died, which changed everything....So I did the next best thing, I trained with nine of his students... From his first to his last student and in between... I have nothing to prove to anyone of you... I'm certified as an instructor and recognized as one as well.... Oh, and I do have a piece's of tree to prove it...


Now just so the younger JKDer's don't get confused by some statements here...The fact of the matter is "NO ONE RECIEVED AN INSTRUCTOR RANK CERTIFITCATE FROM BRUCE LEE"....Bruce Lee himself never had one neither… This is a fact, not my fact, nor anyone one that I trained with is fact.... But the fact.... Secondly, Linda Lee and her daughter recognized all of Bruce Lee's students as being able to pass on the art....
For everyone heads up, I'll say it again....NO ONE WAS GIVEN AN INSTRUCRTOR’S LEVEL RANK BY BRUCE LEE....Do the research, don't listen to anyone on this matter....Find out for your self....Bruce Lee give out rank to people that was there....Say you was around for a year than he give you 1st Rank... Their are actor that BL taught that have the same rank as other's...But you won't hear people talk about that, now do you?


Now, from where I'm coming from as a 2nd Generation JKD Instructor... I don't believe in the term's JKDC or OJKD...I'm neither one, I'm a Jeet Kune Do pointer to the way... It's that way --------------------> both of these so called terms were created after a once fluid man lived and his follower's turned “IT” into "classical mess"....Didn’t BL talk about this? Something to think about! The Jeet Kune Do I teach are the "three stages of cultivation", the writing is on the wall as I always say... Everyone is welcome to come and experience what I teach, this is the best way to see if I’m “full of shit”….No dire land swimming here… Enough said!


Keep "IT" Real,
Sifu John McNabney

[Guest]

John,

Throughout all of my posts I have never questioned you individually, and I am not here to do that now. My posts have also not been about OJKD vs JKDC which is and always has been a load of BS, someone else in this discussion raised that ugly monster.

However, I’m sorry, but I have to take issue with a statement in your post:


“NO ONE RECEIVED AN INSTRUCTOR RANK CERTIFICATE FROM BRUCE LEE”

That statement is completely untrue, and I’m surprised because I’m fairly sure a man of your experience must know that its untrue.

You are correct in your statement that Bruce Lee issued student ranking, to all of the students he trained who reached an appropriate level, say 1 or 2. A range of people received these ranks, but they were student ranks. Bruce Lee issued an Instructor rank in his system, and that rank was Level 3. Guro Dan Inosanto was issued with three Instructor rank certificates from Bruce Lee, I have seen them and read with my own eyes, and that is a fact. Two other men received an Instructor rank certificate from Bruce Lee - Taky Kimura and James Lee. So I’m sorry, I don’t know where your information has come from, but it is incorrect.

As for a lot of things said in the rest of your post, you have your opinion and I have mine, and I agree that the debate has become long, tired, and pointless. But as someone who loves the art we both practice, I won’t stand idle whilst such a bold statement is made with such total inaccuracy. If I have misunderstood your post then please clarify, but it seemed pretty black and white to me.

[John McNabney]

John,


However, I’m sorry, but I have to take issue with a statement in your post:


“NO ONE RECEIVED AN INSTRUCTOR RANK CERTIFICATE FROM BRUCE LEE”

That statement is completely untrue, and I’m surprised because I’m fairly sure a man of your experience must know that its untrue.

You are correct in your statement that Bruce Lee issued student ranking, to all of the students he trained who reached an appropriate level, say 1 or 2. A range of people received these ranks, but they were student ranks. Bruce Lee issued an Instructor rank in his system, and that rank was Level 3.

I won’t stand idle whilst such a bold statement is made with such total inaccuracy. If I have misunderstood your post then please clarify, but it seemed pretty black and white to me.

Michael,
First of all let reminded "everyone and you" this isn't about 'JKDC or OJKD or any student of Bruce Lee"... But facts are facts... No one has a certificate that said "INSTRUCTOR ON IT"..... Plain & simple...I have seen all of the certificates you mentioned... Show me Michael, where Bruce Lee said "third rank" is "instructor rank" or that it says that on the certificates? This is "one" of the reasons why Bruce Lee closed the schools in the first place and did away with "rank... Something to think about...


Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney

[Guest]

John,

A statement for you to read:


“On February 9th 1967, I was made an Instructor by Sifu Lee. At that time Sifu Lee told me that my seniors Taky Kimura (Seattle) and James Lee (Oakland) and I were the only three Instructors he had made. Sifu Lee had three arts which he would certify in: "Jun Fan Gung Fu", “Bruce Lee's Tao of Chinese Gung Fu" and "Jeet Kune Do". I have Certificates of Instructorship in all three.”

Sifu/Guro Dan Inosanto


Either he is wrong, or you are. I’ll leave it for people to make up their own minds.

Take it easy

Michael

[John McNabney]

John,

A statement for you to read:


“On February 9th 1967, I was made an Instructor by Sifu Lee. At that time Sifu Lee told me that my seniors Taky Kimura (Seattle) and James Lee (Oakland) and I were the only three Instructors he had made. Sifu Lee had three arts which he would certify in: "Jun Fan Gung Fu", “Bruce Lee's Tao of Chinese Gung Fu" and "Jeet Kune Do". I have Certificates of Instructorship in all three.”

Sifu/Guro Dan Inosanto


Either he is wrong, or you are. I’ll leave it for people to make up their own minds.

Take it easy

Michael

Michael,

I'm aware of this statement...I will not let you turn this into JKDC vs. OJKD BS debate...That is old news, man... Those two terms were created after a once fluid man had lived...Now my statement is non-bias, yours seems not...Once again my research has proven to me that no one has a certificate that states on it "Instructor".....Plain & simple is what I’m saying here...So make up your own mind what I just said... I respect your teacher and have trained with him many times...I just trained with him last Oct, 2008....The JKD I know is about "self - knowledge"... I don't let others due the work for me... I find the root to my own ignorance, just as the founder guided us to...


p.s. young JKDer's, be free-thinker and research...Don't take anyone's "truth" as your "truth"... Find out for your self...After all this is what Jeet Kune Do is about in the first place...

Have A Great Day & Training... It all good...Peace

Keep "IT" Real,

[Guest]

To state again, for the second time, I haven’t at any point in this thread discussed OJKD vs JKDC, so I’m at a loss as to why you think that is my take on this. You have brought it up twice, therefore it seems to be your concern, not mine.

What I am specifically addressing, in my posts directly to you, is one issue and one issue alone – that of Instructor Certification. Your claim is that Instructor Rank Certification under Bruce Lee never existed, I’m saying that is incorrect. However, if your research has led you to that conclusion then you are free to express it, that is everyone’s right.

By the same token I have given my understanding, and supported that with a documented statement from someone who was actually there. I hear you when you say you respect my teacher, and I already know you have trained with him on many occasions. What confuses me greatly therefore, is that the only logical outcome of your research, is that he is lying.

That’s a very strange paradox.

[JGodan78]

Forgive me for my ignorance on the matters of JKD (new to JKD), but I’m seeing some abbreviations being thrown around, what do you mean by “JKDC” and “OJKD”?

Is there a significant difference between the two?

This will help me put into context as the discussion continues on.

Thanks

[JGodan78]

Thanks for responding! It was your second generation instructor terminology on your website that sparked my curiosity into JKD and it's history.

I was one of those kids flying off the couch kicking everything...

That’s funny, I believe all martial artists has this prerequisite where our parents takes us to karate to burn off that energy when we were young.

....So I did the next best thing, I trained with nine of his students... From his first to his last student and in between...

Which 9 did you train with and who was the lone one that you did not train with?

Was there any difference in what the training among these 9, since JKD was still young at this time?

Just out of curiosity, it’s not often I have an opportunity to have a discussion with a martial artist who has the contextual history behind it.

[Happy Cat]

JKDC is an abbreviation some use to identify the Concepts camp. The Concepts students are most often identified by Inosanto lineage.

JKDO is an abbreviation some use to identify the Original camp, those students who study the JKD as it was practiced by Bruce Lee and James Lee.

Many if not most JKDO students still believe in the idea that JKD must be personalized and must continue to evolve, but the June Fan (Bruce Lee) methods are emphasized as a base.

As you can see from the comments here, there has been a long running dispute between these too groups. This particular forum is usually dominated more by the JKDC students, which is only right because they outnumber us JKDOs by a large margin.

McNabney, and most people who teach for a living, do not want to get sucked into arguing about this division. What some people may tell you in private may be different than what they will say here.

Another complication is that Dan Inosanto is widely respected as a friend of Bruce and as an elder in the art even by most of the JKDOs, so criticism of JKDC is often between the lines. JKDC students, in my experience, often take any criticism of JKDC as a personal attack on Dan Inosanto. This makes discussion difficult.

All of this history is unknown to most who study JKD, so you are getting some early insight here.

If you are interested in self defense, both schools of thought have a lot to offer. If you are interested in learning what Bruce taught, then I think you will want to look at JKDO.

Remember every JKDO group is different. What one teaches and emphasizes is not what another one does.

McNabney is giving good advice in the spirit of JKD: Find your own truth. Do not let anyone tell you what the truth is. The pathless path is a difficult road because you must find your own way. Bruce one said that only one person in 10,000 could follow that road. If you find the road easy, if you find an instructor who can guide you down every turn of that road, look out. You are on the wrong path.

[Ghost]

If you find an instructor that can lead you down every turn then hes a good instructor.

lets not make martial arts more complicated than it needs to be, its not THAT complicated.

[Happy Cat]

Simple is good

Well, that’s true too. It’s as complex or as simple as you make it. One goal of JKD it to strive toward simplicity and directness. Thanks for the reminder.

[dmcdonnell]

My opinion

OK, so I am about a month late to the party ... I will chime in anyway...

I consider myself a JKD practitioner plain and simple.. My personal lineage is through Sifu/Guro Dan Inosanto and I have my opinions as to what and who are JKD and who are not.. As Michael stated earlier and I am gonna restate now, I am not commenting on OJKD vs. JKDC, since no one's mind will be changed anyway, the camps are solidly divided and no amount of explanation will suffice for either side to change..

That said, as for a "Legitimate" instructor, that debate stretches far and wide to all arts, not just our beloved JKD..

In my not so humble opinion, if you find someone who is honest about his training and where he recieved it, a few things will be evident..

A good punch is a good punch, a good kick is a good kick, if you can use takedowns and throws effectively, and your attributes are strong, i.e. timing, stamina, cardio, balance, etc., then chances are you have a good teacher.. whether or not that person is certified by an organization or a legitimate instructor, that is beside the point..

A GREAT example a guy like Randy Couture.. the ONLY legitimate "rank" he has is a Greco Roman wrestling background.. BUT, he charges in the neighborhood of $25,000 for a WEEKEND seminar..

All the other stuff he learned, was ON THE JOB training in his fight career., but you have fighters like Tyson Griffin, Forrest griffin, Gina Carano, and MANY others training with him..

Dave

[pstevens]

First of all, I’m not a JKD person and never have been. But I grew up reading Bruce Lee and understood that he wasn’t trying to invent a new “style”, rather he was investigating a new mindset with regards to martial arts training. Things had become too stagnant.

As such, I have a few things I'd like to discuss.

I believe that Bruce taught different students different things in part because, as his movie career took off, he wanted to make sure that he was the top dog and that he would always have an advantage.

Pure speculation. That Bruce Lee stopped teaching certain techniques can point to any conclusion. How are we suppose to understand the motives of a man who has since passed?

Once again my research has proven to me that no one has a certificate that states on it "Instructor".....Plain & simple is what I’m saying here...

John,

Must the word “instructor” appear on a certificate to make one a legitimate instructor? Your argument suggests Bruce Lee was so small-minded as to give a man whom he trained with and respected, a certificate that has no merit other than showing that he trained with Bruce Lee.

Well, I don’t have the word “instructor” scribed on any of my certificates either… But I was told by the Master Instructor who handed them to me that I had earned the right and privilege of teaching and being called a “master” should I see fit.

Could it be that Bruce Lee never issued a certificate with the words “instructor” on there because it never existed? AND that what he gave and said to Guru Dan was, in his (Bruce Lee) mind sufficient enough? I’m sure this is the case, since you yourself acknowledge that Bruce never gave one to himself. I mean, why would he? The idea seems very silly – Bruce Lee giving himself a certificate to teach others.

As far as we know, Guru Dan received Certificates from Bruce Lee and was told by Bruce Lee, he was a legitimate JKD instructor. Mind you, this is a man who trained with Bruce Lee and helped him along the way. Isn't this sufficient?

[pstevens]

RIP Bruce Lee.