Did Bruce borrow from Kenpo?

[TracyKarate]

Can anyone tell me how much Kenpo there is in Jeet Kune Do? My instructor tells us Bruce borrowed heavily from Ed Parker, but I have not come across much on their relationship in any of the books i've read on him or the art. Any help would be appreciated.

[Ryu (non-working password]

These are supposed to be Bruce's original arts that made up JKD

Wing Chun
Northern Praying Mantis
Southern Praying Mantis
Choy Li Fut
Tai Chi Chuan
Paqua
Hsing I
Bak Hoo Pai
Bak Fu Pai
Eagle Claw
Ng Ga Kuen
Ny Ying Ga
Bak Mei Pai
Northern Shaolin
Southern Shaolin
Bok Pai
Law Horn Kuen
Chin Na
Monkey Style
Drunken Style
Western Fencing
Western Boxing
Western Wrestling
jujutsu
Escrima
Filipino Sikaran
Muay Thai

But obviously Bruce trained with the likes of Parker (Kenpo) and Gene Lebelle (judo) so you can possibly make the assumption that he pulled something from these arts as well.

Ryu

[Dave.H.]

Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do is actually not as complicated as a lot of people make it out to be. Too many people in this world say there are 10, 20, 30 different styles of martial arts incorporated into JKD.
In reality there is only 3 (maybe 4). They are: 1.) Wing Chun Kung Fu 2.) Western Boxing 3.) Fencing and 4.) Bruce's own style of kicking (influenced by a style of Chinese Gung Fu)

Don't get me wrong here Bruce DID study and train with a lot of martial artists & masters.
Just to name a few: Judo - "Judo" Gene Lebell
TaeKwonDo - Jhoon Rhee
Small Circle Jiujutsu - Wally Jay
Kempo Karate - Ed Parker
Karate & Kickboxing - Joe Lewis
TangSooDo - Chuck Norris
Kali & Filipino arts - Dan Inosanto
All of these people plus many more had an influence on Bruce's delevopment as a fighter and a martial artist, BUT it does NOT mean that all of these styles are a part of JKD. I just thought I would put in my .02 cents worth here! Thanks!
-Dave.H.

[Maxximus]

No, he didn't

[Dave.H.]

Maxximus,

Good post, buddy! No he didn't - what? Try talking through your keyboard! He didn't what? Drink orange juice? Eat hamburgers? Like brussel sprouts? Expand on your statement.

[Ryu (non-working password]

I think Maxximus was addressing TracyKarate's original post.
he was saying "No, Bruce didn't pull from Kenpo"

He said it bluntly because TracyKarate has been trolling the BJJ forum. I don't think he was referring to your post at all.

Ryu

[gungfuhero]

In regards to Bruce Lee inventing his own style of kicking, I think that it needs to be pointed out that Jun Fan Gung Fu kicking techniques are greatly influenced by Muay Thai and Savate as well as the Northern and Southern Chinese systems. A lot of the jut sao material was borrowed from the mantis systems as well as many other trapping techniques and tactics. The is definitely a japanese element in the grappling as well as a heavy influence of western wrestling via Gene LeBell.

[Maxximus]

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Thanx Ryu...helpful as always

[JKDMAN]

I train in Kenpo as well as JKD. There is definitely a lot of similarities in what my Kenpo Sifu teaches me and what My JKD Sifu teaches me. I will say that Parker and Bruce where good friends and it is a safe assumption to say that they heavily influenced each other. As to whether or not Kenpo itself is in JKD No. Some concepts are shared between the two, but JKD is not Art 1 + Art 2 + Art ......= JKD. JKD is just JKD! A series of ideas and concepts to improve your attributes and learn how to survive not only in a streetfight but, applying those same concepts to everyday life, how to thrive in life itself. To separate JKD into a list of arts, is to destroy what JKD strives to achieve. JKD is supposed to be an ever-growing ever-adapting thing. As new people learn JKD they bring with them all the people who influenced them and all the martial arts they have learned. Ergo They put their own spin on the drills and concepts they learn in JKD--striving to make JKD their own. "Absorb what is useful..." my friend, that is JKD.

[aseepish]

I used to train in Kenpo. I remember my instructor telling me that Ed Parker got his "outer rim theory" from Bruce. This is the concept that one's blocks shouldn't chase the opponent's strikes beyond the point where they would actually miss one's body.

Anyway, I'm sure there was a dialogue between the two men as they were, as someone else pointed out, friends.

-Tony

[likuid]

aseepish-

as a side note

the 'outer rim theory' as influenced by bruce lee to ed parker is probably 'the four gates' from wing chun.

[MikeJKD]

Tracy,
Chances are, Bruce looked into much of what Ed Parker was doing with Kempo at the time, just as he looked at everything else that other martial artists he came in contact with were doing. Bruce Lee was a consumate researcher, and he no doubt got a lot out of his talks and training time with Edmund, but probably didn't like Parker's structured approach to training. Actually, as most JKD'ers know, it was in 1964 that Bruce met Dan Inosanto through Ed Parker at his Internationals in Long Beach. As much as Bruce and Dan trained and researched together, you can bet that Bruce had more than a little exposure to Kempo, but as Dan has said publicly many, many times before, nothing that he had learned through the Kempo system worked against Bruce at all, and when they sparred, if Bruce wanted to take something, he took it! That says a lot, in my opinion, because Dan Inosanto is easily the fastest and most technically proficient martial artist I've trained under, and he is no doubt one of the best in the world. In essence, I think Bruce looked at Kempo from a researcher's standpoint and saw that Ed Parker was drawing a lot of his ideas from the same places Bruce was, but didn't really like the traditional, "classical" approach that Ed was taking, so he basically left it alone.
Mike

[aseepish]

Four gates/outer rim

Likuid,

Yep, that sounds like the stuff.

BTW, When training in JKD or in Wing Chun (I'm training in Wing Chun now (albeit of a non-Yip Man Lineage)), I never heard of anything called the "outer-rim" theory (although the concept is there). Parker was great at (or notorious for, take your pick) re-naming concepts.

[TracyKarate]

Thank you for the answers gentlemen. I appreciate the feedback.