Trapping...Does it work?

[Wi-Stickboxer]

I've been on the line for this one for quite some time. I finally have done enough work to come to my own conclusion. "Trapping" the way most TMA's(including JKD) teach it, is time that could be spent learning and developing practical skills. If you enjoy these things,by all means do them.However, I do not see any attributes that couldn't be trained in a more functional way...

A "trap" may work well against a certain type of structure,but a double leg or a Thai Clinch would probably work better....

[fire cobra]

And its possible to stop a attempted clinch with a trap or a slap or call it what you will and make a opening for a hit,Thais use it all the time ain high level competition,so as usual everything can be usefull even if you dont use it that often.

[StickyHands]

To clarify, when I used the term "complex trapping" I meant multiple traps in a single situation. I don't doubt the usefulness of more simple trapping such as pak, da or lop, da. However, I don't think that double barrier trapping, making 2, 3, or 4 hits is going to be a likely occurance in a live situation. For example, I don't think something as complex as this sequence is likely for the vast majority of people who train the martial arts: pak, da the first barrier, lop, da the second barrier, move into a figure four joint lock and continue into a standing armbar, ending finally with a silat trip to take the opponent to the ground. I realize the latter few moves aren't traditionally considered ''trapping'' but this is something we practice in my school which presents itself once you enter from the traps I just described.

While I don't think "complex trapping" in that sense is very practical, I do however, think that basic, single barrier trapping is not only possible, but fairly likely to occur in a live situation. It is not uncommon to find some part of your body, especially the hands/forearms, up against an opponent met with some resistance during a live situations; therefore, I think a basic trap such as a pak or a lop would be in order to neutralize whatever barrier presents itself.

I understand there will be plenty of people who disagree with me, I just wanted to clarify what I meant by my previous posts.

[pmosiun]

Even if you say you are trapping by using pak sao which is basically slapping the hand out of the way, you don't actually need to train pak sao, many boxer would just slap the hand out of the way, it is just natural in order to be able to hit the opponent.

[StickyHands]

Even if you say it's "natural" to slap the hand out of the way, that doesn't mean you don't need to train it. Repetitive training of a move as basic as pak sao creates muscle memory which is what comes out during a live situation in which there is no time to think.

To say you don't need to train it because it's a "natural" movement is like saying boxers (or anyone for that matter) don't need to train how to punch because that's the "natural" method of hitting (especially in boxing). All things need to be trained, and trained repetitively, so that technique can be perfected and the movement can be drilled into muscle memory so that when the time comes to act, you act without thinking.

[Hammerhead]

"I suspect the reason that Cheung and Botzepe don't perform what they teach is because their training method simply doesn't help them at all. I don't know if they spar., or if they cross train. Their fight was pretty silly because neither of them know how to fight they just know a lot of techniques, and ancient de-contextualized training methods."

Cheung & Botzepe both acted like children. A 50 something year old man shouldn't make public challenges & Botzepe is nothing more than a thug as evidenced by the way he slaps his students around & posts video of himself attempting to beat up an old man on YouTube. His ego controls his actions.

Regarding trapping; it does indeed work! Against a boxer...don't box! Close the gap with a low lying kick & pak sao da the boxer's lead hand, followed by an overhand left, and exit with a right hook.

[Guest]

Against a boxer...don't box! Close the gap with a low lying kick & pak sao da the boxer's lead hand, followed by an overhand left, and exit with a right hook.

Its as easy as that eh?

How many amateur or professional boxers have you beaten with your low line kick to pak sao da? I'd be keen to know.

[Hammerhead]

Its as easy as that eh?

How many amateur or professional boxers have you beaten with your low line kick to pak sao da? I'd be keen to know.

Keen?

Feel free to show me where I said anything was "easy".

Define "beaten".

I've had stitches on 22 separate occasions & broken numerous bones. I've had my tooth put through my lip on three different instances alone & had a tooth knocked out.

"Easy"...honestly!

Without going into further detail...I will tell you a boxer is at an extreme disadvantage when fighting someone who can kick & punch themselves.