Why train your JKD in realistic combat?

[Kvntu]

People ask this a lot and it’s a good question. Why study realistic fighting concepts when the chance of a real fight is so rare for most people. It is really rare if you know how to avoid and defuse. I have personally walked through the worst areas of the world and not had to use martial arts. So why train in realistic combat? Is someone that trains in it just a paranoid freak practicing for an event that probably will never occur? My reason is its all about adrenaline. It’s learning how to deal and live in that state. When someone attacks you, the heart can go crazy. Your skill level drops tremendously and you get major tunnel vision. Everyone I have interviewed that has been in a street fight agrees, but then again, if you know how to avoid a fight why does any of this matter? Well, there are so many other events that can occur in our life that might be traumatic and what could be called an adrenaline event. Learning to feel at home in an adrenaline event is very appreciated not just by the Special Forces in the military forces, but airline pilots and just about anybody that is entrusted in critical situations.

Ok, so how does that translate to the person living a normal life? Well, there are times we have moments in our “normal life” when we are pushed into that “deer in the head lights syndrome”. Everyone is different and some people are more subject to adrenaline surges than others. Some people seem little effected while others go into a paralysis. Just recently I had a blowout driving 75 mph and dealt with it just fine because I am so use to dealing with that freaking out adrenaline mode that comes from realistic combat training. There are a lot of examples I could give when keeping a cool head is an advantage, say from being at work and your Boss yells at you and you get flustered and tongue tied to your car sliding down a hill in the ice. I believe if you are used to functioning in an adrenaline state you handle those heart pounding situations much better. That’s why I also include realistic training in my art, similar to what Peyton Quinn or Jim Wagner teaches. Of course you could do a non-martial arts style of training to help with that, but I love martial arts and enjoy the physical aspect of it as well as the mental. And who knows, I guess there is always the chance it might save my or someone's life.

[Guest]

I'm not sure what this really has to do with JKD per say.

You may want to check out an existing thread that has already discussed these points:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/urban-street-combatives-r-b-m/32063-why-self-defense.html

[Rick Tomas]

Interesting post and I agree that its important to keep it real in your Jeet Kune Do.

[Joe Hubbard]

It sounded more like a confused marketing plug with little direction and no point. Very few of these reality guys really understand the whole adrelinan/heart rate training matrix. It tends to get handed down now with third hand non-professiona/non-medical references. Interesting that the reference of pilots was used. The reason that trained professionals can function under stress is because of their training. In whatever capacity, trained professionals train to enhance their:

1) Attributes: Physical, Mental, Emotional & Spiritual
2) Skill Development: Technical, Tactical, Conceptual & Interpersonal
3) Application: Combat Scenario Development & Force-On-Force Training

Unfortunately, too many reality guys are looking for a short cut. Guess the news? There are none.

[Kvntu]

Thank you for your input. It can be rewarding on some level to complicate a rather simple basic human reaction, however doing so is not the most efficient way to learn. There is a tendency amongst some folks in the Martial Sciences to needlessly over complicate training and unfortunately this can be for financial gain or creating an elite sense of themselves. In my over 20 years of experience I can say that people can benefit even from the most basic adrenaline training. In the military where we are trained for life and death real combat, the training is fast, simple and efficient. For instance, as the trainee is attempting to reassemble his weapon, the sergeant will be yelling at him the entire time. Sounds simple but don’t dismiss it if you have never experienced it. Often a simple training concept is very effective for real combat preparation. The theory is to condition the soldier to operate under duress so he can function on the battlefield under fire. Placing people in those states and training them to not freeze but still accomplish the required task is not a complicated issue. They don’t need to meditate 2 hours a day in some temple, develop deep emotional, mental or spiritual prowess. In fact they don’t even need to perfect complex motor skills to acquire the ability to operate under duress. Keeping it direct and simple was a point Bruce Lee made often. In my humble opinion, over complicating a simple reality only benefits the person trying to “sell” something or helps inflate their ego. It has little value for the student.

[Joe Hubbard]

Okay, I am a little surprised at your reply here Sparky as it suggests that you are from military pedigree. Let me clear up a few misconceptions about me though first and then I’ll comment on the latter.

What I have outlined in my previous post is in fact simple, but not too simple and delineates a complete structure for becoming proficient at anything. I find it weird that you insinuate that I am attempting to over complicate things for financial gain and/or self-importance issues. I say that because you do not know me and 20 years of experience or not, it reeks of immaturity and false assumption.

You pass comment on how one does not need mental, emotional and spiritual attributes. From a military paradigm those elements are the most important to develop and are taught and ingrained at every military institution worth its salt throughout the world. Let’s break it down in case you were confused.

- Mental Attributes: combat mindset, controlled aggression, psychological warfare
- Emotional Attributes: fear and anger management
- Spiritual Attributes: combat belief system (not religious) and ego management

As I stated in the opening statement of this post, I am confused that you don’t get this because this is a military blueprint along with of course physical attributes, skill development and simulated application. How does this over complicate things? How does this suggest that I am out for financial gain? How does this suggest that I am an elitist as you imply?

Now why are the SAS so hard to get into? If it was so easy, then everybody would be Special Forces operators, medical doctors and flying Apache helicopters. Another question: how does some lame ass shouting at you while you are reassembling a weapon resemble actual combat? I would have thought shooting live ammunition over soldier’s heads while conducting move, shoot and cover drills would be more of a successful replication, don’t you? Are you in the military? If so, in what capacity and in what unit? What combat conflicts have you served in?

I am simply stating that this sort of training involves a lot more that shouting at each other and spewing expletives at a guy suited up with a helmet four times the size of a normal head. Most people who do a three day course of this sort with no attributes or skill are led into a false sense of security. I do believe in realistic force-on-force drills with a competent coach who truly understands this training model, but it has to be done right and it has to work in a progression. I have a saying that goes, “You can’t learn to swim on dry land, but you can’t learn to swim in a Tsunami either.”

Over to you…

[Tant01]

"Realistic Combat" is a fancy way to say no two conflicts will ever be the same.



I don't normally wear a ballistic helmet strapped on my head but I wouldn't be caught dead without one in certain theatres of "realistic" COMBAT...

[Rick Tomas]

I find it weird that you insinuate that I am attempting to over complicate things for financial gain and/or self-importance issues.

Sorry dude, but your website seems to support the idea of you trying to sell something and you having a big ego.
Joe "The Contractor" Hubbard Main Page
Hey but I did dig all those poser pics, especially the one with the sunglasses, very cool and very Hollywood.

While I don’t totally agree with Kvntu about not needing mental and spiritual training, I found the following comments you made both arrogant and ignorant:
“I am simply stating that this sort of training involves a lot more that shouting at each other and spewing expletives at a guy suited up with a helmet four times the size of a normal head. Most people who do a three day course of this sort with no attributes or skill are led into a false sense of security.”

I happen to be one of those guys that teach a course like that and can tell that it has a lot of value. I have had women report back to me months after the training that it kicked in during their hour of need and saved them from some horrible situations. I think people should be careful about trashing something they have little experience with. But whatever, opinion are like assholes and every assholes has one!

[Joe Hubbard]

Hi Rick

Hundreds to thousands of people are fooled all the time by out-of-date self defence training and/or traditional martial arts systems. My statement was neither ignorant nor arrogant in any way and apologies to you Sir if I have inadvertently hurt your feelings by what I have said. My statement was actually empirical in its content and notice that I did not degrade or trash any system or anybody’s name nor did I attempt to make any personal comment- did you just call me an asshole?

Have you ever tried to choke someone out with one of those over sized helmets? You know the ones that are 4-times the size of the average human head? What about going to the ground and having to secure a position before you can strike, eye gouge and/or bite? Maintaining a strong side-control position where you trap the opponent’s jaw with your shoulder? What about takedowns? What about CQC combinations while maintaining anchors on the neck? Are you getting the picture? It’s really impractical training unless you are solving your problems exclusively within kicking and striking range. Of course people in-the-know realise that fights are won on the street in close quarter range and if something goes wrong and you end up on the ground, you had better understand how to neutralise the threat and get back to your feet, so I stand with my statement that this type of course – the one with the Elephant Man as the bad guy – will give your students (mostly women) a false sense of security.

For your information: yes I do have a website. Yes, I do sell things on the website. I’m sorry the pictures were not to your taste. My last website, which was designed by me and had more appealing pictures to fellow martial artists, had an average of 150-400 hits per month. My new site, which was designed and marketed by professionals, now gets between 17,000 to 20,000 hits per month. Big difference, eh? I am sorry that you feel I am an ego maniac- have we met and/or trained together? I don’t seem to remember the name.

Rewinding to my original reply to Kvntu, I merely asked how my post related to his comments regarding that I was out for financial gain and/or self importance issues. If I was trying to sell something, like a seminar and/or a DVD, I would have just posted a link for a new release or an announcement for an up coming seminar like I have done many times in the past. As far as self important issues go, I don’t suffer fools gladly.