What is JKD?

[Socrates]

What is Jeet Kune Do?

When I have heard Dan Inosanto speak about ‘JKD’ he always makes it clear to the listener that ‘JKD’ is a concept, not a style.

The Collins English dictionary defines ‘concept’ as:
1. An idea, esp. an abstract idea: the concepts of biology.
2. Philosophy. A general idea that corresponds to some class of entities and consists of the essential features of the class.
3. A new idea, an invention
4. (modifier) (of a product, esp. a car) created to demonstrate the technical skills and imagination of the designers, and not for mass production or sale.

So lets take it that ‘Jeet Kune Do’ was an idea/concept that Bruce Lee had based on his beliefs of fighting. These ideas and concepts were directly influenced by his interest in Philosophy and the study of the self. Because of this search for personal liberation and his study of philosophers like J.Krishnumurti, he decided ‘Man the creating individual is greater than any style or system’ and as a result tried to liberate himself in the MA and life itself.

Its said that Bruce wished he never created the name of ‘Jeet Kune Do’ as this made it appear as though he had created a new style of fighting. And we all know lots of people think ‘JKD’ is a style of fighting. It seems that Bruce was an extremely perceptive guy and had a good grasp of human nature and thought this may happen. And we can see evidence of this from the following quote.

“ When I die, these guys will probably do something that I won’t like. They’ll probably build monuments, have impressive creeds, hang pictures of me in the halls and bow to me.”

And as you sit there and read this it can be seen that he was 100% right. So what is the point of this post then I hear you ask? Well here’s a few questions I would like to ask you in the hope that maybe I’ll come away with a greater understanding of where Bruce was trying to go in the MA.

Was the concept of ‘Jeet Kune Do’ meant to escalate and become what it has today?

Is the name ‘Jeet Kune Do’ itself important?

Does ‘JKD’ really exist? or is it just a way for us as MA to associate ourselves with the legend of Bruce Lee?

And finally, have we as Martial Artists totally missed the point of Bruce Lee’s philosophy of the MA and life?


I look forward to hearing your thoughts and viewpoints on this.

Yours sincerely

Socrates the philosophical martial artist.

‘If the capacity for non-violent self defense is lacking, there need be no hesitation in using violent means’
M.Gandhi.

[gungfuhero]

Bruce Lee often answered the question of what JKD is by telling you what it isn't. I suggest you go to Sean Madigan's (sp?) website and read the "Liberate Yourself from Classical Karate."

JKD is the rejection of style and the self deception inherent in style. A style tells you which techniqes work and what you SHOULD do. Bruce Lee believed that the only person who can decide what you are going to do in a fight is you. Rather than be the product of a system so that you can rely on past knowledge rather than take responsibility for your actions, a JKD man realizes he is limited by no style and can use all means.

I think that Bruce would be happy that there are martial artists standing on their own two feet who aren't taking his or anyone else's partiality as the gospel truth. Those who are functionalizing their skills, training hard and keeping an open mind are living JKD.

JKD is both the art and philosophy of Bruce Lee. He often refered to his own personal expression as JKD, but JKD isn't limited to him. The art that he taught can justifiably be called JKD, but that is his JKD and by teaching you his he intended on you creating your own.

By the way, JKD doesn't exist outside of the individual.


PS excellent thread, let's keep it going

[Dr Jack]

Socrates,
Reread gungfuhero's post. This whole area of jkdc vs jfjkd is really a hot issue. I think they are both right . Both have good ideas and neither is totally "the way" ( my opinion). Check out BigJKD web site for more info, also Patrick Strong and Steve Golden will often answer posts(original Lee students).Also check out Ron Prathers website ( see my post to you under JKD SEAL)

Jack

[Socrates]

Greetings,

Thank you for the replies, its good to discuss such things as ‘JKD’. There are still a few things I’m unsure about, therefore I’d like to ask a few more questions in the hope that someone can enlighten me.

Gungfuhero says:

‘JKD is the rejection of style and the self-deception inherent in style.

Okay, as we already know Bruce Lee decided, rightly or wrongly, that the classical styles of Martial arts limited us from expressing ourselves freely. I agree with this to a certain extent, although when you say ‘the self-deception inherent in style’ I’m not sure what you mean.

How is it possible, that self-deception is inherent in style?

Surely self-deception comes from within, therefore self-deception must mean it is the self/us who is doing the deceiving and not the style.

You then go onto say:

‘A style tells you which techniques work and what you SHOULD do. Bruce Lee believed that the only person who can decide what you are going to do in a fight is you. Rather than be the product of a system so that you can rely on past knowledge rather than take responsibility for your actions, a JKD man realizes he is limited by no style and can use all means.’

This is an interesting perspective to take. Although it does appear to suggest that Bruce felt styles alone were solely responsible for people being molded into particular types of fighters and because of this acting like automatons during a fight.

Was he correct in thinking this?

To me a style, classical or otherwise, is nothing but an instruction manual. Its ultimate purpose is to give us the tools we need for the art of fighting, whether we use these or not is our choice.
I kind of agree with his statement ‘Man the creating individual is more important than any system’, although I don’t think Bruce meant to create another style or reject the classical systems altogether.

What I feel he was trying to do, was to free martial artists from rigidly following systems of combat that were structured in a dogmatic way. He wanted to liberate us from the state of mind we are in, the one where we believe everything an instructor tells us without once questioning what they say. After all Bruce was a philosopher, why would he just blindly accept what MA instructors/experts say about the truth in combat?

But the original question is still unanswered, what is ‘Jeet Kune Do’?

‘Jeet Kune Do’ is a concept, an idea. The name itself, I feel, is arbitrary. Dan Inosanto still trains in classical systems and its said that Bruce himself had continued to train in Wing Chun. It looks to me as though Dan Inosanto has grasped the idea of, so-called, ‘JKD’. He’s realized that what he needs to do when studying a new style is discover the essence of that particular style and absorb what is useful for him.

You finished by saying:

‘JKD is both the art and philosophy of Bruce Lee. He often referred to his own personal expression as JKD, but JKD isn't limited to him. The art that he taught could justifiably be called JKD, but that is his JKD and by teaching you his he intended on you creating your own.

By the way, JKD doesn't exist outside of the individual.’

As you will know by now I don’t really agree that the name ‘JKD’ is of any importance at all, and I am also quite happy to say ‘JKD’ doesn’t exist at all.

Why?

It cannot be seen or felt or heard. All Bruce did was rename something that has always existed. He decided to give the name of ‘Jeet Kune Do’ to curiosity and common sense.

Hope someone can help me out or maybe share their ideas on this one, until the next time so long.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Socrates.

[Dr Jack]

Socrates,
Let me try to expand upon what GFH was saying. Regarding "self deception being inherent in a martial arts style", yes Bruce was correct in my opinion. The reason being every style ( I have trained in White Crane , Shaolin 5 animal, Bushido Ryu and of course Tae Kwon Do, and currently in both JKD concepts and Jun Fan JKD) molds the martial artist into the parameters of that style. For example White Crane is heavily kicking oriented and the hand strikes are long range blows, very little close in fighting, no trapping and no grappling. So that was how I was molded to think and fight at that distance primarily. Now what do I do if I fight a grappler who takes me down? Tae Kwon Do also had a heavy reliance on kicking with hand techniques not emphasized and no grappling. Each style I have studied has a set of limitations that the trainee internalizes when he studies the art, Lee was trying to liberate us from this way of thinking and free us from a style. Thus the no limitation as limitation and no way as way!

Now what is JKD? That depends upon who you ask. There are two primary schools of thought, first the JKD Concepts school which began with Dan Inosanto. They believe that what is important is what Lee actually said , they do not follow and teach only the techniques Bruce taught, They do include Jun Fan JKD and Kickboxing but also include Silat,boxing,thai boxing , BJJ (brazilian ju jitsu) and kali( to name a few arts studied in our curriculum). Basically if a technique is simple, nonclassical,direct and effective we use it. The second school of JKD is Jun Fan JKD, a primary proponent of this system is Lamar Davis and the Bruce Lee Educational Foundation ( also called the nucleus). The nucleus includes Linda Lee and many first generation JKD students of Bruce. They believe that JKD should only include the core curricula as taught by Bruce in either the Seattle,Oakland or LA schools. They say do whatever you want but do not call it JKD if Bruce didn't teach it.

To me they both have a point and I train in both arts separately as the two sifu do not cross over curricula.You have to explore and find out what JKD is for you. Train in both JFJKD and JKDC and decide what fits and what doesn't. I find techniques that Bruce was a master of do not always work for me. I am not as fast as Bruce and I never will be, so I do not want to be "enslaved by techniques" that will not work for me, if I am ,Sijo Lee's teaching was for nothing.

I would like to hear your opinion on my thoughts,


Jack

[gungfuhero]

"Self deception" (translated by Kaufmann) is a Sartrian concept, although in his own writings he refers to it as bad faith. Self deception is when you with-hold the truth from yourself. The deceiver is also the deceived. Specifically, self deception is trying to give yourself an essence-in this case the ideals and values of a style-while actually being a being for itself, denying the beings transcendence. Sartre gave his famous waiter example where the waiter was just too good of a waiter, trying to fit the mold of a waiter rather than act as a free human being. He sought an image to conform to rather than confront the fact that he is "condemned to be free." Stylists try to become the incarnate of a style rather than express themselves. They deceive themselves by trying to become the style rather than being themselves. This what Bruce Lee called second hand artistry. By latching on to a system and making yourself subject to its laws, you can draw comfort and security, but you are denying yourself and your freedom.

If you are to take styles as suggestions to learn more about yourself, that is fine. As a JKD practitioner, my training is greatly enhanced by cross training. Since I am responsible for how I fair in a fight, I want to have experience in a variety of skills. Since fights can happen at a variety of ranges, with or without weapons, I train with all these variables. A JKD man knows that their is no way to know how a fight will mutate, so JKD becomes training for the ultimate reality of combat. I've learned things from Jun Fan, Thai Boxing, Tae Kwon Do, Savate, Thai Boxing, Shooto, CSW, BJJ, Kali and its sub-arts, shotokan karate, Judo and several other styles. I have assimilated tools from these arts, so they are mine, part of my expression of JKD. However, I am not limited to any of them. My JKD is mine to define.

JKD is the reality of fighting. It is a personal approach to fighting and life in general. Bruce Lee had his JKD and advocated that each of us develop our own. We must develop our own game, and its value ultimately is a product of the individual's performance.

[gungfuhero]

By the way, this is what JKD concepts is all about. OJKD or JFJKD or Jun Fan Gung Fu or whatever you want to call it is a part of JKD concepts. OJKD and JKDC are not in opposition because JKDC encompasses all including OJKD. JKDC is not exclusive, but advocates that the individual is free to absorb what is useful. A JKDC man looks to be himself and not be the tool of martial arts propaganda.

[ScubaJKD]

There are several excellent books out there on this subject as well as alot of people that can give you an excellent description of what JKD is and what it is not. With that being said I would add to this post by saying that absent Jun Fan Gung Fu there is no JKD. At least not the JKD as taught by Bruce Lee.

Jun Fan Gung Fu was and still is the basic progression of the art or concept of JKD. Designed to develop technique as well as atributes and the application of each in all ranges of combat. Kicking, boxing, trapping and grappling ranges. Jun Fan Gung Fu is the basis for which the student begins to grow and learn and explore. Broken down into JF Kickboxing, JK Grappling, and JF Trapping. The JKD student while developing in JFGF is encouraged to expand and grow in the other arts just as Bruce Lee did.

Bruce Lee also trained in Kali, Silat, Judo, and Thai Boxing to mention only a few. All while continually developing JFGF. Some training in these arts was limited based upon what knowledge was available at the time. However when he or Guro Inosanto would train in these other arts, or evaluate them for value, it was always though the principles and scrutiny of JFGF.

JKD as a concept is hard enough for the western mind to grasp. However, minus the progression of JFGF as a basis to begin to learn, it is impossible to truely understand or define it.

Reading the Tao of JKD, and training in a bunch of different styles is a long way from hitting the mark. It is a true statement that each man can develop his own JKD through his own path of what works in combat.

However, to be the JKD of Bruce Lee, as taught by Bruce Lee and Guro Dan Inosanto, the student must travel down the path of and progression of Jun Fan Gung Fu.

[gungfuhero]

Although you do need a place to start from, you don't necessarily have to do Jun Fan to do your own JKD. My understanding is that Jun Fan is the base art that Bruce Lee handed down for us to use as a foundation, but it isn't the only foundation. Bruce Lee's base art was wing chun, someone elses may be boxing. Jun Fan is the foundation for Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do, his progression for developing fighters. What's more important than the specifics of Jun Fan are the concepts of efficiency, simplicity and directness. However, Jun Fan doesn't have a monopoly on these concepts. It is entirely possible that a fighter may have never studied Jun Fan, but could become formless and simple thus practicing his own JKD. Granted it wouldn't be Bruce Lee's lineage or progression, but he would be following philosophical JKD which is the point.

[ScubaJKD]

gungfuhero,

As I stated above, it is a true statement that each man can develop his own JKD through his own path of what works in combat.

However, Jun Fan Gung Fu was and still is the foundation used to teach JKD. It is through JFGF that each individual begins the journey towards their own JKD. Unless you train in the art of JFGF how else would you know what Bruce was talking about when he was discussing things like range, timming, efficiency, simplicity and directness. Sure everyone has a grasp of these concepts but that does not mean you have a grasp at what he was teaching and how he taught it minus JFGF.

It is also true the JFGF does not have a monopoly on the concepts taught to achieve each individuals JKD. Lots of arts use alot of the same principles in training and application.

You can achieve your own JKD or the philisophical JKD as you put it but it will never be JKD as Bruce Lee taught it or developed it minus JFGF.

Its the same effect of saying I train in the art of Bruce Lees Jeet Kune Do but I dont train in Bruce Lees Jeet Kune Do. Doesn't make a whole lots of sense does it ? You could equate it to sticking a pig in a dress. That doesn't mean the pig is now a belly dancer. It's just a pig in a dress. Or put another way. Sticking a Corvette Emblem on your 92 Honda civic does not make it a Corvette.

That is not to say that Bruce Lee has not inspired lots of martial artist, and that the teachings from the Tao cannot be applied to any art. Everyone can benefit from his teachings. But that does not mean you are practicing his art.

[Dr Jack]

Scuba JKD,
I disagree with your belief that you have to start with JFJKD . The JFJKD that I train in only includes the techniques taught by Sijo Lee. I agree Bruce trained in many arts but not all are taught in a traditional JFJKD school. As a matter of fact grappling and weapons are specifically excluded. We both know that Bruce was a good grappler ( he trained with Gene Labell) and he was proficient with weapons , these are not taught. The JFJKD that I am aware of is heavily influrnced by Wing Chun . It (according to my Sifu, Lamar Davis) does not need grappling. I will add Sifu Lamar is an excellent martial artist and he very well may be able to stop a grappler. I question my ability to stop a grappler therefore I train in grappling.
You may have experience with a JFJKD school that includes these ranges but I do not think that is common. Sean Madigan for example of BigJKD in New York is more representative of a newer approach where he combines the two. This makes really good sense to me , but many JKD instructors tend to be in one camp or the other.

I would like to hear more about your experiences.

Jack

[Socrates]

Greetings Jack,

In your post you say Bruce was correct about styles limiting martial artists. You say that from your personal experience of different styles you know this, you then go onto say:

‘Each style I have studied has a set of limitations that the trainee internalizes when he studies the art, Lee was trying to liberate us from this way of thinking and free us from a style.’

This seems to be a fair point although I’m not sure it is entirely true. In fact I would say it’s a generalization. It’s up to the student to CHOOSE whether he internalizes these limitations when he studies the art.

It is not the style that has self-deception inherent in it, it’s the martial artist studying the style. You also say that Bruce Lee was trying to liberate us from this way of thinking and free us from style, yet this post has generated replies that seem to suggest this is not the case. I can already hear you asking why?

Well in my opinion it’s all to do with the word style. I would like to offer a few definitions from the Collins English Dictionary to help us out.

Style:
1. A form of appearance, design, or production; type or make.
2. The way in which something is done: good style
3. The manner in which something is expressed or performed.

It seems that Bruce Lee created another style when he taught Jun Fan, JKD or anything else he taught to others, this in itself is fine. But to say that you don’t need styles seems absurd. Why because in whatever manner WE CHOOSE to fight, we are by definition using a particular style.

“I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans.” William Blake

The question I’m asking is what is ‘JKD’?

Bruce Lee said he was trying to liberate us from styles yet in doing so, like it or not, he created another style. Some people have called ‘JKD’ nothing but an ego trip created by the ‘Little Dragon’ himself. I’m not so sure about that myself, but in order to understand Bruce and his philosophies a little better I decided to purchase the book ‘Artist of Life’. I found this book both enlightening and confusing.

After reading this book I realized that Bruce was either confused or a hypocrite, as yet I haven’t decided which one. He talks about the values and philosophies of the Eastern world and how great they are yet goes onto embrace the way of the West. For example just take his training routine, every hour God sends Bruce trains in every way possible to become the best in the world. This goes against all of the beliefs of the ‘Eastern Philosophy’ that he quoted so heavily.

Gungfufighter says:

‘Stylists try to become the incarnate of a style rather than express themselves. They deceive themselves by trying to become the style rather than being themselves. This is what Bruce Lee called second hand artistry. By latching on to a system and making yourself subject to its laws, you can draw comfort and security, but you are denying yourself and your freedom.’

You then go onto say:

‘I have assimilated tools from these arts, so they are mine, part of my expression of JKD. However, I am not limited to any of them. My JKD is mine to define.’

It appears to me what you are saying is a contradiction. You talk about how ‘Stylists try to become the incarnate of a style rather than express themselves. They deceive themselves by trying to become the style rather than being themselves.’ And then seem to do the self-same thing by identifying yourself with ‘JKD’ which as I have tried to show is nothing but another style. I’m not trying to criticize anyone in a bad way, only point out the strangeness of what people say when discussing ‘JKD’.

In my opinion ‘Jeet Kune Do’ is a style, yet it claims not to be so. Bruce invented his own style and named it ‘JKD’ yet instead of liberating martial artists he has trapped them into thinking ‘JKD’ is the real deal. In my opinion it’s the association with Bruce Lee that is important for those who consider themselves to be ‘JKD’ men. The words of Jesus Christ come in handy in this situation.

“Follow me and you’ll lose yourselves, but follow yourselves and you will find both me and yourself.”

One more quote to finish up, just replace Zen with 'JKD'.

To remain caught up in ideas and words about Zen is, as the old masters say, to “Stink of Zen”
Alan Watts

I look forward to your comments, until the next time so long.

Socrates.

[ScubaJKD]

Dr. Jack, please try and keep what I said in context. Specifically the point that anyone can experience their own JKD. That was Bruce Lees gift to the martial arts. However to understand and grow from Bruce Lees teachings you must have the background in JFGF or it is not Bruce Lees Jeet Kune Do.

Yes it is true that JFGF is heavily based in trapping from Wing Chun. But the complete curriculum of JFGF which very few people understand or know about included. Jun Fan Trapping, JF Grappling, and JF Kickboxing. Three distinct areas for the student to grow and explore in all the ranges that makes up JFGF. You are right that allot of the grappling at that time came from wrestling, Judo from Gene Lebell, and Wally Jay also had a profound input from small circle Ju-jitsu.

I am not band standing JFGF as the way. However I am stating that in order to fully understand the point of JKD as taught by Bruce Lee you must have experienced his progressing and training methods. Without them you are only getting the icing on the cake and not the cake.

I certainly would not stop my learning process with JFGF either. I have grown through other arts as well to develop in the ranges of combat. My point here is not to espouse JFGF over another art or training method.

My point is very simply trying to give the reader a historical perspective. You should give credit where credit is due. JKD came from JFGF. Although JKD's gift is universal. Once that is understood the reader can begin to understand how to define it for him or herself. Without the basic understanding of what JFGF is or is not you would be hard pressed to ever understand what Bruce Lee was trying to give to the world except at a cursory and shallow level.

The problem with even defining JFGF comes from the fact that it was continually evolving during Bruce's Life. Only those who were with him through the evolution of his development of JFGF truly understand, and there was only one of them.

In fact only Guro Inosanto was ranked as an instructor in all three of Bruce's Arts. Yes there were three. Chinese Gung Fu, Jun Fan Gung Fu, and Jeet Kune Do.

Don't be mislead. Jun Fan Gung Fu is a style. It is also the progression of the accumulation of knowledge and technique assimilated through Bruce's life and research. It was designed to be taught and learned for the student to then expand into their own JKD.

To the question: Does this now make the JKD student a slave to JFGF. This is an excellent question and to the observer it would appear that by creating JFGF he would limit his students to that style and therefore enslave them.

But nothing could be farther from the truth. Although the curriculum is set and has specific things the student must learn, it is always taught from the perspective of JKD concepts. This is where you must have first hand knowledge to understand how this is possible.

The teaching of JFGF for me was very frustrating and also very liberating. The options and progressions seemed endless. The complexity and at the same time simplicity were at times overwhelming. I like most western people wanted a big mack and a order of fries. JFGF taught me how to analyze combat, arts, ranges, and techniques as they relate to my opponent and my own attributes. The same is true of every other student who has been exposed to the "complete" curriculum.

In short,

Is JFGF a style YES
Is JKD a style NO
Can you develop your own concept of JKD without JFGF YES
Can you learn Bruce Lees JKD without JFGF NO
Can you apply the principles of JKD to any art YES
Can you truly understand those principles without JFGF NO

Thanks for the post.

[mushinmaster]

Wow. My eyes hurt just reading the first five posts.

I'm no Bruce scholar, but I think what he was saying is do what you think is right, don't do what someone else tells you is right, unless YOU realize it is right - from within. Use only the techniques and ideas that work for you, but study all of them.

"Follow not in the footsteps of masters, but rather seek what they sought." DEF.

I think JKD is laymen terms.

I am still trying to comprehend expressing oneself in physical motions - and combat, but its coming along.

[gungfuhero]

I see my post raised some questions and appeared contradictory, so I will try to clarify my points.

You cannot do Bruce Lee's JKD, and by that I mean his progression, without Jun Fan. You can do your own JKD without learning Jun Fan. Say a fighter has never studied Jun Fan, but he becomes proficient in the different fighting ranges with and without weapons and ultimately becomes formless. He has transcended style and system and expresses himself efficiently as possible. Isn't that the philosophy of JKD? What he does in not Bruce Lee's JKD, so it should not be called Bruce Lee's JKD. If his name is Dirk Diggler then he should call it Dirk Diggler's JKD. However, he is doing exactly what Bruce Lee advocated.

The self deception occurs when the individual tries to express the style rather than himself. Since all knowledge is ultimately self-knowledge, by training in different arts you may learn things about yourself that you didn't before.

From Bruce Lee's perspective, think of what it is like trying to teach somebody to express himself. I would think it's probably impossible, but what you could do is give examples of your own self expression. Bruce Lee filled his cup with what he felt was important, that was his Jeet Kune Do or often simply written Jeet Kune Do. He advocated that we do the same.

Bruce Lee called his martial art JKD, because it was a convenient name for the pathless path. Like he said, the name is just a boat to get across the river; you have to call it something.