Sparring = reality

[ryanhall]

true, but blocking a punch with the entire body weight of a 250 lb guy with bad intentions can be easier said than done. you don't want to bet on what an assailant may or may not do, because there is no way to be sure that you will be able to counter it--be it a haymaker or a boxer's cross. contemplating counters is the wrong way to go. in reality, it is a much better idea to beat the adversary with your mind. the intellgent warrior only engages after he loads the dice in his favor--pattern interrupt and first strike.

if you were contemplating counters, trying to joint/arm lock someone who is trying to seriously harm you is probably a bad idea. hit back, and hit back hard. just my opinion. don't play nice when the action starts--it creates the wrong mindset.


ryan

[Suzuki_Fanboy]

I agree, I was just trying to name some of the possible counters to that specific move...but when they put all their weight into that single punch, there are unlimited possibilities of what you could do.

[Sean J]

When it is pretty sure that he is going to attack (dangerous 250 lbs...) I aggree one should not waist time with too many thoughts about how he will attack - just hit first. And hit hard (and hope for the best). This is where "dojo-mentality" is often counterproductive. Of course it is OK in some situations to wait for the other guy to make the first move, because we do not want to start a fight where there should not be any fight. But they often forget to tell this is not allways the best way to act. Especially when the opponent is extremely dangerous because of his size or because of weapons I propagate just waiting for the signal that he means business and then go for it.

When however you have to react to an attack I personally think it is easier to anticipate the general direction of the attack than the specific technique. That is why I train sidestepping and stop-punches a lot. Very often works better than classical parrying and blocking.

[ryanhall]

well said sean. i agree with the sidestep, but often an encounter will start in the close quarters range--moving is rarely an option all by itself. blocking here can be very tricky, and this is why, when given reason, one should hit first and hit hard. that said, a well-timed jam or block can usually work wonders for you--if you have your hands up already (not a fighting stance, but a non-violent deescalation stance). you're correct in saying that trying to block or parry a strike/punch starting with the normal "talk shit to the dude" hands at the side/chest out stance is extremely difficult. just clarifying what i meant


ryan

[Sean J]

True! This is the kind of situation where I tend ge so close that it is difficult to hit me - because it will be too close for most persons to gain enough speed. Besides, at talking distance persons I always assume a covert en gard position; scratching my chin (being ready to parry or cover with the elbow) or something. Most people, however will try to push me away to get enough space to punch or go straight to grappling (because he'll underestimate my size mostly). A common response in either case from me is pushing the guy away with a finger jab to the throat with limited power. Now I have my fighting distance and the attacker on the retreat.
I have pulled this off I don't know how many times, working as a bouncer. Sometimes the "fight" stopped right there because the attacker was demoralized. Sometimes not.
But the point is, with my tactics I defined the actions he had at his disposal, and thus it was easier for me to respond the right way.

[jesse7]

The more realistic the sparing the better it will train you up for the streets. I dont do sparing unless its full contact, only rules are no eyes or nuts. Usually we will "pull back" on our attacks depending on where they are going as to not hurt our oponient too much. When I spar with my mates I let them know when I could have hurt them bad .. and they tell me. Sometimes we use pads/gloves etc so we can go a bit harder.

Me and my brother used to get into fights all the time. (with other ppl) and I can definatly say sparing (or maybe its just the martial arts) has vastly improved the outcomes. Most fights etc my brother has been in he has been outnumber'd but still sent off the other guys in the ambulances from single punch's, but broken wrists/hands often resulted :P. Now we do MA and sparing we dont even get sprains anymore as we have learnt how to not punch... from sparing etc.

I dunno seems to help if you ask me .. sparing back yard with your friends is great .. they and you can go physco ... as long as you pull back on your punch's slightly.

Jess

[ryanhall]

jesse,
you're right--sparring can help turn you into a better fighter. it is one of the few ways you can truly test your skills. however, don't let your ability to smack your friends around give you a false sense of security. i spar with one friend regularly, and sometimes he can give me some trouble (being 70 lbs heavier and all)--i'm not about to punch him in the face or eye jab him, so it always turns into a standup grappling match that morphs into a ground and pound. in reality, however, i have given beatings to a couple guys much bigger than me. the reason for this is that i (and most everybody else) don't play nice in real life. it's not a sparring match. you can't recreate the emotions, adrenaline dump, and innumerable variables that come into real life confrontation.

as for your brother, he's pretty lucky he's dealing with one-punch-wonders that fold with the first good shot. also, breaking you hand can be a little bit of a setback in a multiples situation. i can assure you that he would've been the one in the ambulance if his opponents had been carrying a *insert weapon* or really had the desire to hurt him. multiple opponents are more dangerous than most people realize (but not impossible like many say). that being said, if these guys were not a bunch of 8th grade punks, i can tell you that it was his mentality that allowed him to beat multiple people. in order to win against a serious threat, you have to be able to be more vicious than they are (for the moment)--get them before they get you. anyways, glad your bro isn't in the hospital.


ryan

[Sean J]

People don't play too nice in sparring or tournaments either - while I try to be fair. That is why I don't do competition.

I actually had one situation where I was showing somebody just about the only armlock I ever use. Did not work too well because he resisted an I did not want to run the risk of hurting him.

One day this guy actually picked a fight with somebody and I had to take him outside. With exactly the same armlock. Worked perfectly. Different situation, diferent mindset, different result ...

[ryanhall]

sean,
i agree with you about sparring tournaments (they can get pretty rough), but i am referring to something a little more extreme than lacing someone with your gloves or covering their face with your hands. try breaking four fingers when someone has you in a sub hold, fluid shock striking, gouges, neck cranks etc. while i have by no means used all of these, they do exist and are illegal in tournaments. often times they are the only thing billy badass knows how to do. if those fail, enter the weapon/buddies. then you are really in some $hit.

you were right about the mindset. you held back and the lock failed. you got serious and it worked. i don't know the differences in size/skill between you and your opponent. those do become a factor, because the way you perceive a threat can seriously affect your fighting ability. i.e. you would probably fight better against oscar de la hoya if you didn't know it was him than against a 6'5'' monster with absolutely no skill--this is because one looks a lot more threatening than the other, even if it is not the case. as you would guess, your level of fear is totally in accordance with how dangerous you THINK a person/event is--not necessarily how it/they really is/are. i hope i am explaining this clearly--it's a little hard to get across in writing.

this is why i like to stick to things that work on just about everybody--hard striking, preemtive striking, and choke holds (the ground is a different matter). i stay away from any standing lock because too much can go wrong. just the way i do things.

[Sean J]

You are absolutely right. Teh guy with the armlock was only about average - that is: Approx 10 cm taller and 10 kg heavier. I am 176 cm and 68 kg at that time.

But years ago, after only about 8-9 months of training and a few weeks on the job as a doorman I was attacked by a man who had just pushed somebody his own size over a table. about 190 cm and 90 kg. Of course my mind was at a much higher level of alert than it would have been if he had been smaller or at least not thrown somebody that big around. This caused me to grab his hair, tear his head down and smack my knee into his face - something which ended the fight within 2-3 seconds.