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**robertlee** · 11-18-2002, 03:00 PM

If you have tools that you canot make work . You do not want to use them . If you instruct some else may be able to use the tools you cannot. So you teach them in the curriculam. Each person Each style has tools the learned that they could not get to work . It boils down to less is better . A small set of tools that work and gets the job done for you . That is what its about. No to people are alike . nor do they think the same . Personal development exposes the different needs . This wont take a life time. What takes a life time is trying to learn the tools that you canot get to work in a short time . The more complex the move the more it must be practiced . When sometimes its just better to go on . Why spend years learning to apply a tool ? You can learn many tools in just onr art . But how many can you use All jkd does is exposes you to yourself. It has a format then you have your own thats yours . Just as you what you use that works for you. and what is taught. Simpal tools that many can use . Is better then complicated tools that just some can use. Turn years into months . Then as the years go by the less just gets better. JKD is carrying forward like any not the best out there but works for some and some not just a path.

**ryanhall** · 11-18-2002, 03:09 PM

i think that if bruce saw what jkd has beocome today, he would be rolling in his grave. in many ways, it has become almost as traditional as karate, tke, kung fu, etc. it's pretty sad, really. everything from teaching original jeet kune do to standing in lines preforming set techniques has ruined a beautiful thing. if bruce hadn't died prematurely, his art would have been evolving non-stop--it did while he was alive. bruce said something to the extent of "the height of society is in its simplicity." this has obviously been totally forgotten, as (many, not all)teachers/students incorporate random techniques from many styles without understanding why they are doing what they are doing. bruce subtracted daily, and these guys add daily--what's up with this? one technique mastered is better than one hundred sampled.

dan inosanto did a great thing when he introduced kali and started teaching jkd "concepts." that was a big step for the jkd crowd. the factor that allowed this to work, however, was dan's understanding of filipino arts. bruce studied boxing, fencing, savate, and many other arts with extreme devotion so that he could gain an understanding of what they did and why it worked/didn't work. only after that did he decide what he would adopt. where has this gone? i realize that few people have the time/ability/desire to devote that much energy to martial arts training, but the addition of random techniques is usually counterproductive. "my teacher does a front leg savate kick, so i'll do one too" has become too common imho.

even though others have surpassed him, paul vunak does a good job with his version of jkd--don't like elbow destructions though. keep it simple, keep it effective. i think this is close to the direction bruce would have gone if he were still alive. jkd was supposed to be a philosop, not a collection of techniques. unfortunately, it has lost a lot of the philosophy/thinking aspect of it. everybody likes a picture of bruce lee on their school's wall, but most of them do nothing that was in line with what bruce believed.

i still think jkd is an EXCEPTIONAL art--far better than 99.9% of the dojo arts out there. many jkd practitioners can fight--a claim lots of arts can't even come close to. however, i believe they are limiting themselves and becoming more and more traditional every day.

just my 2 cents
ryan

**NuffSpeed** · 11-23-2002, 04:00 AM

"It boils down to less is better" In a way, I agree with this statement, but to get to less you need more. If someone takes the time and insures that an effective technique is taught properly, I see anything but harm in this.My philosophy on JKD is to learn as much as I can, and use Bruce's philosophies. If you have the gift to see what is effective(and that's different for every single person), train in any art and take that from it and make it your own(ie, someone mentioned Kali, I know alot of the techniques, but many aren't realistic for me, I do well with the knifes and that energy, but sparring with sticks isn't natural for me, even though I'm an outside boxer and strive on countering). To me JKD is a mentality that leads you down the right path. Yes I think Bruce Lee would be rolling in his grave at many of the places that teach JKD, but I also think he would be turning in his grave to see some of the advancements and smiling at the fact that he achieved some of what he set out and intended to do(Spread his philosophy on knowledge). Many people want to "Be Like Bruce", but in the wrong way. Your body type, your metabolism, size, weight distribution, etc etc are all different. I love learning Jun Fan JKD, Jun Fan Gung Fu, but what I love more is achieving my own personal arsenal. A true JKD "instructor" will teach the techniques to the masses at his gym, but also take the time to evaluate personal attributes and add to them(in a perfect world where they don't charge for "privates"). I also believe JKD is for an experienced martial artist. I was of the mentality that martial arts were b.s for the longest time before I really took the time to evaluate. I,ve boxed since I was about 8 years old, I don't agree with many of the techniques or training habits of TKD, but I put both my kids into because its a positive atmosphere and an introduction. I tried to teach my son boxing for the last 2 years, but he just doesn't have the discipline to learn from me and I don't want to push him. His forms in TKD are flawless, I really don't believe in kata's and forms, I think you might as well learn ballroom dancing or some shit, but he takes interest. He's 8 years old and already spars in TKD. He does like some of the energy drills I teach him , so he's starting to grow. Anyway, my point is the more you add, the more you have to choose what is yours and what works for you(by this I don't mean spending my life obtaining "belts" but knowledge). I try to go to as many seminars as I can. Someone mentioned that JKD is becoming as traditional as karate etc, but to practice JKD is beyond what one teacher tells you to do, its personal enlightenment to be taught and to practice are worlds apart. I agree with people wanting to preserve what Bruce did, but I also know in my heart that JKD is a revolving art and always will be. Anyone know any Jailhouse Rock? Same principles.

**ryanhall** · 11-23-2002, 12:44 PM

good post.

i always thought "jailhouse rock" was a hyped-up super-secret bunch of nonsense. as far as i can tell, it's dirty boxing. i've never been in prison, but i have spoken with people who have been on the inside. fistfighting doesn't really happen. you're usually in a group based on your race, and you do what they want you to do. you don't get ko'ed in prison, you get shanked. if you go around beating people with "jailhouse rock" or whatever, you're going to be shanked sooner rather than later. that's why i think it's a myth. the inmates don't go around in fear of martial arts masters (if they are in there). one would be better off keeping a low profile. i calle em like i see em.

ryan

**NuffSpeed** · 11-24-2002, 04:53 PM

Jailhouse Rock is a system, and it isn't "prison fight club". From what I"ve been told it's pretty old. Everything else you said is very true.

**Morné** · 11-25-2002, 02:19 AM

JKD

I think if Bruce Lee had to see what guys like Burton Richardson and Matt Thornton have done with JKD, i think he would be pretty pleased & impressed.

Enjoy!
Morné

**ryanhall** · 11-25-2002, 08:28 PM

yes, but...

bruce was into creating a street ready system that was simple, direct, and effective. i like some of what matt thornton has done, and bruce would definitely agreed with his "aliveness." don't know much about burton. i think he would have been more impressed with what some of the best reality martial arts/sd guys have done. they incorporate everything from nhb style training to mental/psychological warfare. this, in my opinion, is a far greater advancement than the development of physical skills alone. i say this is not to diminish what others have done, though. they have all made their mark, but i believe bruce was always about learning more. physical technique is not an end in and of itself in my opinion.

ryan

**robertlee** · 11-25-2002, 10:35 PM

JKD should start with the JKD that bruce was doing and teaching then let it branch out. The foundation will be stronger . The person would have had the chance to learn the tools then evolve. Any addition to JKD should not be seperate but made to fit in. Who can fight well trying to switch? To do means it happens As the tools are explored cast out what you do not need , but give back as you teach it. Then the others will have had your chance to. Or you are just saying your way is now better then Bruce way so do it your way . How you do is you. the students need there foundation to. Then they are redy for what you have extended into your learning. In the end JKD will always be the person in the end. How well they become starts with the aproach they start with.

**ryanhall** · 11-25-2002, 10:40 PM

quality post rob

**platinum_angel** · 11-27-2002, 11:52 PM

yes i do think it is what he intended it to be right now

**ryanhall** · 11-28-2002, 04:59 PM

why do you think that? care to explain?

ryan

**platinum_angel** · 11-28-2002, 07:44 PM

well i think he made it like a stepping stone of a large river once you get across that river its up to you to progress with your own type of fighting. and that is what the instructors teach. like dan inosanto. like me i used JKD as a stepping stone and now i am studying jiu-jitsu-trying to make virtually my own type of martial arts. and i think thats what bruce lee believed

**ryanhall** · 11-29-2002, 01:41 PM

i agree with you. bruce did intend for it to be like a stepping stone. my problem with it is that many people don't use it like that. they take what bruce taught originally and just stick with that, thinking that it is the only true jkd. they think in the "ultimate martial art" mentality. the best instructors teach open-mindedness and try to take the best of everything that works for them. unfortunately, most the the jkd instructors i have run into, do not do this. jkd is often best left to the person rather than an instructor. if you don't have any outside "do it this way, don't do it that way," you will find what works for you. nobody practices something that doesn't work unless there is outside pressure to do it.

someone wrote this in another post on this subject:
who is the better jkd man? the student who becomes attached to the strong side forward stance and always tries to intercept with a finger jab, or the judoka who studies boxing to gain a greater understanding of himself as a fighter. he'd say the second person was doing jkd, and the first was a traditionalist. it's not your toolbox that matters, but the way you approach the the arts.

ryan

**lau gar** · 12-01-2002, 11:11 AM

who has read 'tao of jeet kune do'.

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JKD - Is it what bruce intended?

JKD - Is it what bruce intended?

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