BRUCE LEE and JEET KUNE DO

[archon_23]

....mind without limits:

...the essence of the life and the work of bruce lee should be remembered along the lines of what miles davis and john coltrane did for jazz musick:

by creating a singular effort to establish a particular musickal theme and then playing improvised riffs over the established overall musickal theme -- coltrane and davis were able to lift jazz into formerly un-explored terrains.....

during such formative years for davis and coltrane (...circa 1955 through 1969..) bruce lee was moving along a similar path: that by understanding the
foundational points of various fighting forms and styles bruce lee was able to improvise over these foundational points to a very strong level of success and advancement of the overall martial arts concept:


..therefore i find the bickering about bruce lee's revelance to the philosophy of martial arts to be a considered act of stupidity and waste and an obvious indication as to the un-disciplined mind that cannot recognise any individual as being a great teacher.

as a great teacher then -- bruce lee opened doors and introduced countless many to the simple thought that if each individual could take a particular style of martial arts and interpetate that particular style through their own unique senses and strengths then the overall philosophy of martial arts would become deeply revolutionised and truly a force of self-expression.....

for those who either degrade or worship bruce lee to the utter levels of banality: un-less you are willing to devote yourself to the levels as bruce lee and other teachers of martial arts have in forwarding martial arts: then please shut up and find another forum to waste time and effort at:

thank you.

[marino13]

Bruce studied under Sifu Gin Foon Mark shortly after he came to the United States. He was in New York city visiting his father who was in town with the Chinese opera. You can read about this in Jesse Glover's Book, or " The Dragon and the Tiger " book . Bruce was very adept in many animal styles, maybe not to the point of mastery, but very adept. Sifu Dan Inosanto touched on this many times, and it's also mentioned in the book, " The Dragon and the Tiger ."

Richie

[m.artist]

hmm...thx for the info..gotta look into that.i see that book everywhere but never bought it. guess i might have to now

[archon_23]

Bruce studied under Sifu Gin Foon Mark shortly after he came to the United States. He was in New York city visiting his father who was in town with the Chinese opera. You can read about this in Jesse Glover's Book, or " The Dragon and the Tiger " book . Bruce was very adept in many animal styles, maybe not to the point of mastery, but very adept. Sifu Dan Inosanto touched on this many times, and it's also mentioned in the book, " The Dragon and the Tiger ."

Richie

...thank you for this post richie --- your insight into what bruce studied and what bruce endeavored to achieve verifies the necessary understanding that bruce was a great teacher and might i add a very brilliant student all at once:

there needs to be more emphasis placed upon this than the high end crap of hero worship and villan vilification that occurs with bruce or any other 'martial arts star': and may i also remind such narrow minds that in the now most infamous interview with bruce lee -- he denounced the whole 'superstar' thing as being a basic illusion and deception.....

thank you once more richie.

[marino13]

archon_23,

I agree with you a hundred percent. We need to take the time to research things before we speculate on it. Bruce was an extremely hard worker, and he himself admits that he too was a student just as much as he was a teacher. He never stopped learning and improving his self. It's okay to admire him, or even idolize him, but don't worship him. his wife once said, " that Bruce would be most proud of the fact that he was real ! "

Richie

P.S. The Dragon and the Tiger is an awesome book ! You'll learn a lot about Bruce and James Yimm Lee, and best of all it's only volume 1 of many more to come

[archon_23]

archon_23,

I agree with you a hundred percent. We need to take the time to research things before we speculate on it. Bruce was an extremely hard worker, and he himself admits that he too was a student just as much as he was a teacher. He never stopped learning and improving his self. It's okay to admire him, or even idolize him, but don't worship him. his wife once said, " that Bruce would be most proud of the fact that he was real ! "

Richie

P.S. The Dragon and the Tiger is an awesome book ! You'll learn a lot about Bruce and James Yimm Lee, and best of all it's only volume 1 of many more to come

...the key remains richie to continue to strive in the realization that bruce and others had come to understand:

that a mind and an intent filled with the spirit of discipline becomes a path that can accomplish all and inevitably influence all else around....

the philosophy of martial arts has always been beseiged by the neon flash of those wanting to capitalise on martial arts as a means to either feed the fevered egos or to feed the fevered greed or all of the above. in this capacitiy the true legacy of bruce lee should be studied and absorbed -- throughout his life bruce faced such greed and such egos in individuals attempted to use him as well as the martial arts as another vehicle for feeding their egos and their greed -- and why perhaps his s0-called 'cocky attitude' has been perpetuated by lesser minds lacking any understanding in regards with what occurs when one's life becomes the matter of constant scrutiny by both well wishers and those waiting for him to fail and fall upon his face...

use the wisdom that bruce himself sought: and use that wisdom to transform yourself and in transforming yourself you transform others around you: i grow weary of the slime that travels across the surfaces of the martial arts philosophy perpetuated by those either deeply flawed or willfully blind by their own fevered egos: the martial arts was developed to bring about the changes of an individual's deepest and truest will -- not to become reduced to bickering about 'who's the best....' and degrading individuals attempting to bring change to the philosophy of martial arts that will offer all individuals whom partake of the martial arts many paths of expression and inner development of the mind body and spirit....

...forget the pettiness and forget the fever egos: embrace the martial arts as bruce and others have and create within yourself an inner calm and most of all an inner fire that will illuminate all moments and all shadows.

thank you.

[El Mastero]

Bruce studied under Sifu Gin Foon Mark shortly after he came to the United States.

Many people who knew Bruce dispute that claim. Coincidentally this came up on another JKD forum a while back. Here are what some noted people had to say on the subject.

"I have checked with Robert, Phoebe and Peter Lee and they all say that Bruce was never in NY at that age nor did the father ever get to the States at that time. The last time the father was touring in the States is when Bruce was born. The Lee family says this man never did teach nor did he have any contact with Bruce or the family."

"Total bull****. Bruce did not leave Seattle except to go to Hong Kong. His father was not acting at the time. His father was in Hong Kong and not acted in the USA for a number of years. Bruce was in San Francisco for three months and then went to Seattle, all in 1959. His parents were in Hong Kong at the time. Besides, he did not think that much of Preying mantis. Check with Jesse or Taky and they will verify."

I think the guy is full of ****! In all the years I knew Bruce, he only revered Yip Mon. I saw Gin's interview on one of the Bruce Lee tapes and he talked like he beat Bruce. I believe he is making up things. It only happened in his imagination. Let me know what you think. I am only speaking from my own unfactualy perspective. If I am right I think the guy is the lowest of low because Bruce is not around to defend himself.

I don't think so. Bruce came to Seattle shortly after he came back to the states. I saw him every day for the next year year or so and often after that. I know for a fact that he never went to New York during this period. He was 18 when I met him and he turned 19 shortly after that. Bruce studied Preying Mantis from Fook Yeung. How do I know? I was there and also learned some Preying Mantis. Bruce used to do Preying Mantis forms in some of our demos. I don't think that Bruce's father ever came back to the US after Bruce was born here but to make sure I would contact his sister or someone in the family. They can tell you. Bruce would never play around with anyone's student. This just wasn't his way, after he discovered that he could fight. He was challenging many teachers and others in Hong Kong while I could see him fighting someone I just can't see him displaying what he would do while someone else looked on. Preying Mantis lost to Wing Chun all the time in Hong Kong. Wang Kui who was very good at Preying Mantis lost to Wong Shun Leung and after trying to set him up in matches against other Gung Fu men ended up converting to Wing Chun. No one year student would have been able to draw with Bruce. The account that you sent me just doesn't ring true but who knows. I certainly would be careful about passing on such a story unless it checked out with the family. Even then it just doesn't sound like anything that Bruce would do.

[marino13]

Hmmm, thanks El Mastero, I'll have to look into that ! I appreciate you posting this it is very interesting. I've read the book " The Dragon and the Tiger " but have not read Jesse Glover's book. In " The Dragon and the Tiger " it states that Bruce went to New york before he ever moved to Seattle. He stayed in SanFransico when he came back to America, and taught the Dance lessons, before moving to Seattle to live and work at Ruby Chow's restraunt. Thats when he met Jesse and became friends with him. This book is co written by Greglon Lee, who is James Yimm Lee's son. Bruce Lee lived with them for awhile in Oakland after moving there from Seattle. So I'm sure he has a lot of insight to Bruce and his life, but there are two sides to every story. So I'll have to dig deep

Richie

[New Hal]

Great post El Mastero.

In regards to "The Dragon and the Tiger"

I question the background of the authors with regards to Jeet Kune Do and Bruce Lee. Sid Campbell’s connections appear to be one magazine article written 15 years ago and Greglon Lee. With all due respect to James Yimm Lee and Greglon Lee, Greglon’s only connection seems to be by birth and meeting Bruce Lee as a child. James Yimm Lee died when his son was 19. Greglon didn’t develop an interest in martial arts until sometime later.

So how did the authors know Bruce Lee’s inner most thoughts in New York on a trip to visit his father that most likely never happened? There is no evidence that Bruce Lee or his father were in New York at the time in question.

To be fair, a some people who were in Oakland and trained with James Yimm Lee and/or Bruce Lee believe that the book is quite accurrate with regards to what happened in Oakland. They do question how the authors would know what Bruce Lee was thinking.

Hal

[archon_23]

Great post El Mastero.

In regards to "The Dragon and the Tiger"

I question the background of the authors with regards to Jeet Kune Do and Bruce Lee. Sid Campbell’s connections appear to be one magazine article written 15 years ago and Greglon Lee. With all due respect to James Yimm Lee and Greglon Lee, Greglon’s only connection seems to be by birth and meeting Bruce Lee as a child. James Yimm Lee died when his son was 19. Greglon didn’t develop an interest in martial arts until sometime later.

So how did the authors know Bruce Lee’s inner most thoughts in New York on a trip to visit his father that most likely never happened? There is no evidence that Bruce Lee or his father were in New York at the time in question.

To be fair, a some people who were in Oakland and trained with James Yimm Lee and/or Bruce Lee believe that the book is quite accurrate with regards to what happened in Oakland. They do question how the authors would know what Bruce Lee was thinking.

Hal

...my own question must now arise after following this thread:

what does an author(s) interpetation has to do with the teachings and the philosophy left by bruce lee....

this thread seems to be spending far too much time pondering the when's and where's and why's of bruce's movements when such movements has little bearing to what bruce left to those willing to study the philosophy of jeet kune do ...

and might i also remind all that authors regardless of their best intent in piecing together the events of a person's life are never accurate unless these authors actually spent all of their lives living with bruce lee -- and as such authors will spectulate and 'fill in the gaps'.....

[m.artist]

Many people who knew Bruce dispute that claim. Coincidentally this came up on another JKD forum a while back. Here are what some noted people had to say on the subject.

what is the link to that forum?

[El Mastero]

what is the link to that forum?

Forum: http://www.forumco.com/pauljbax/

The actual thread on Gin Foon Mark is on page 7 of [2-JKD: Forum II] make sure that when you enter the site to make sure that the box at the top says [Show all topics] inorder to go that far back.

[m.artist]

thanks alot man

[El Mastero]

thanks alot man

`You're welcome. If you go really far back on one of the two JKD forums you will see the threads where Patrick Strong and James Demille use to post on. There's some really good stuff on JKD and Bruce in those threads. They haven't posted on the forums for a very long time though. Patrick Strong dropped in about a week ago to clear something up but hasn't stopped by since. Jesse Glover was posting steadily last month but he went on a trip to europe recently so I don't think he'll be posting for some time but you could read some of his threads as well. Enjoy.

[m.artist]

so...do u think any of those guys don't really know bruce and are just pulling ur strings?....