Everybody says jkd is this no its this. JEET KUNE DO the way of the intercepting fist. Must have meant something to what bruce was looking for. And it was what Bruce went on to name and teach. Was a style based on the stages as developed. Yet alive in doing and pursueing the individual truth to what would work for him, and what he felt would benifit and work for the student. As any art as the tools were put within it they became part of the training method. Sometimes discarded for other more worthy tools. But jkd will never be the blend of all arts or a few arts. If the core is not of the original teachings. A house must first have a strong foundation to build opon. Or the walls will surely fall. Calling just any mix jkd is watching the house fall down. As the foundation was never strong. ITS just a name do not argue over it. So much misunderstanding to that phrase. JKD was not meant to have the answers. Just a vehicle to grow from. The foundation to your learning with more to come. As you grew to understand the more of yourself. What you can do now and better tommorow expands your doing. simpal direct no wasted motion doing. To swim in the water we get wet .To do jkd we must do. An idea is for thought. JEET KUNE DO is beyond idea. Its your jkd in the end even if you added or took away. As long as you started with the foundation. That keeps it alive. That keeps it looking for the needs. So to explore beyond the foundation is never wrong. And to stay with the foundation is not wrong either. Each person has a diffrent need. Who can in the end say just what you need but you. Its hard training pushing youself to become better. pushing yourself beyond your current limits. To finaly get intouch with just doing. Then it happens you found your jkd. Or the any art that you grew to be a part of . But this will be argued to as there are many minds with different thoughts. Each has the right but the one way is done by doing
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Registered User
- Dec 2002
- 415
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Academy of Kempo Ju Jitsu & Association
http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."
-----Great SiGung Bruce Lee-----
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What exactly do you mean by " original teachings"? Are you talking about the philosophies behind JKD or are you speaking in a more technical manner? If you are speaking in terms of the techniques that Bruce Lee was using, that is Jun Fan Gung Fu, which is a mix of Wing Chun, Western Boxing, Savate, and other elements from about 10 styles. The techniques that Bruce employed were his JKD. What I meant in my prior thread was that JKD was a concept, therefore, there is no such thing as a necessary "core" of techniques that you have to teach a student. You can give a student a rudimentary curriculum composed of Western Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ and Wrestling. After he has acquired this base, he can go on and study other disciplines, as long as he keeps the tenets of simplicity and effectiveness in mind then it is JKD. JKD is about learning and growing, about not being hampered by tradition, you can respect the past, that does not mean that you have to let it rule the present. Bruce Lee mentioned that JKD was not " this or that", so we are all doing JKD, but why do you need to learn Bruce's style of fighting so that you can then develop your own? This is my respectful opinion, not an accusation or my attempt at preaching " the right way".
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When you research original teachings of Bruce Lee you need to bear in mind that the curriculum changed frequently. The more closely you analyze this stuff the more difficult 'original' is to define. A lot changed during, for example, 1967. At least mention the month and year that the curriculum you are talking about comes from.
It is also useful to look at the things that Bruce Lee specified to his instructors, Sifus Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura, to hold back as secret. What was considered 'secret' in the 1960s, such as pak-inside pak da, is considered beginners curriculum today in LA. (Still secret in Seattle.) Does anybody really want to limit themselves this way? Of course not.
TerryLast edited by terry; 03-19-2003, 08:51 PM.
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jkd
"A house must first have a strong foundation to build opon. Or the walls will surely fall."
How do you test, measure, if the walls are worthy?
That really is the key isnt it?
It's easy to say, without a strong foundation in "blah blah" you wont have the base to build upon. But how do you TEST that base?
Have you tested Jun Fan, or OJKD versus say Muay Thai? How about against just an average amteur boxer, or a BJJ player, or a wrestler?
If not how do you know your "foundation" is not built upon a fantasy, and the mythology of what someone 'else' could once do?
If a strong "base", or "foundation", on your feet, in the clinch, and on the ground, which has been pressure tested daily against agressive, resisting opponents, and is trained in an 'Alive' environment, without the traps of traditional limitations and dogma, is NOT JKD, or what JKD was meant to be, then all you have as a "foundation" is yet one more traditional dead pattern Art.
If it is what you have, and what you call JKD, then how do you test it?
enjoy the day
-Matt Thornton
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I have spent close to the last thirty years working and studying different m/a. And jkd. i have worked with boxers and westlers. When I started m/a training alot of what you see in the past few years was not readly avalible. bjj, thai boxing was not trained much for the most part. A foundation boils down to you build the nessasary set of useful tools testing and working them. And in fact if you call it jkd it has to start with jkd jun fan. to be related to that path. You notice people taking tkd. mixing it a little and poof jkd. Its not but a borrowed concept. Now learning doing jun fan // jkd then going on to include bjj, thai boxing. still remains jkd or concepts. Thats where I see it. Is thai boxing, bjj, boxing hands, With no jkd or jun fan . training jkd. I do not think it is. Its to me mixed m/a. And thats good to. Agin I bring functional jkd. To my knowledge has a jkd base behind it. Then has gone on to test and include key tools from diferent arts. And has become respected as a useful structure to improving the m/a of today. But had a base to start with. If you spend the time reading and seeing to many people think anything is jkd. Thats no different then some one taking a few kicks, some elbows , knees and a punching set and say the do thai boxing. Im not saying jkd has to stay as it was . I do think It should be given the benifit of being taught as the foundation to the extention. if its to be called jkd. Thats not going backwards. Its no different then someone doing bjj then going on to inculde a boxer set for hands. and thai for kisks and knees elbows. exposer helps every body. Or is it better to call the mixing what it is mixed m/a. Or some new name. And jun fan// jkd is attacked more of its this no its this then most any art out there. And yes it evolved as it was being developed. But then it sudenly stopped. At that point the different people evolved that went on to study and train. Thats there jkd. And like I said your straight blast gym. has come along at a time of growth in the m/a world. and offers a good ground set of learning. I remain in what I see as jkd and you have your methods.
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"Agin I bring functional jkd. To my knowledge has a jkd base behind it. Then has gone on to test and include key tools from diferent arts. And has become respected as a useful structure to improving the m/a of today. But had a base to start with."
If you are teaching "JKD" as "Bruce Lee's 'style', then you are attempting to pass on another fighters personal style to different athletes. And as stated before, thats always a tragic mistake in terms of performance.
If you are teaching what you call "JKD" as a base delivery system, that's very different. But then you would have to ask. . .WHY?
At least if your goal is PERFORMANCE, then you need to ask why. (If it's image you wont dare question yourself that way.)
Because if your goal is performance I would think you would want the most sound, and functional base out there, wouldn't you?
Do you really believe that to be Jun Fan JKD, and "trapping hands", as opposed to say Muay Thai, or even good Western Boxing skills? And if so, how did you come to that understanding?
What form of measurment did you use?
Yes, what we teach here at the SBG has evolved greatly. The difference being our new students don't need to learn anything we have replaced, (due to empirical measurments based on agressive, resisting attackers) simply for the sake of the "Art".
That would be contrary to the actual goal of performance.
I have no issue with those that wish to preserve such things. But that is NOT our goal, our goal is performance. Another thing which is not helpfull is getting hung up on a name. Any name. As the name is not the thing, and the paper, or lineage is not related to ones ability to apply damage and defend themselves within a respective delivery system.
Next time you meet Randy Couture ask him who "certified" him in wrestling. Or better yet, who he is "under" in wrestling. Then notice that Randy has a very nice way of working a double leg off of an underhook. This is his own brand of a slide by double, and believe me when I say he OWNS that move. It would be very easy to take that and make it a "style". Especially once he passes away.
And then we could pass on "his" way of wrestling. Randy Kune Do we could call it.
But alas that would be a tragic mistake in terms of performance.
That is if your goal is performance?
I have, perhaps, a better idea. . . . . let's just teach people the proper fundementals of wrestling, as discovered by hundreds of thousands of athletes around the world, and tested daily (much like boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, and BJJ), and then allow each INDIVIDUAL wrestler to figure out what takedowns, set ups, and moves, work for him or her.
What an idea.
Cheers!
-Matt Thornton
Last edited by smartmonkey; 03-20-2003, 03:40 AM.
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Why fight over something that cannot be verified. The only person who knew what JKD meant is Bruce himself. It is not his 'interpretation' because he is the innovator of it and explained his 'invention' CLEARLY to my Si Fu Dan and still people keep on arguing on whos "interpretation" is better than who elses. What is SOOOOO difficult about accepting what was told so many years ago to the one man appointed to take over my Si Gung's 'operation? His Jeet Kune Do... His way of combat... His constant search for the ROOTS of TOTAL combat... The commonality that exists between all fihgting arts.
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No one was ever trained to take of . Bruce did not plan to die anytime soon. And had closed his schools. Dan and taki was the only 2 left alive after bruce passed that were authorized to give instruction. Had James lived he may have been more inline to take over. So dan was more that only 2 left he was the one to take it forward. Not the one chosen by Bruce to suceed him. He has done a good amount on his reseach and bringing in the different concepts to explore. So he deserves credit to Keeping the aspects alive.
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Registered User
- Dec 2002
- 415
-
Academy of Kempo Ju Jitsu & Association
http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."
-----Great SiGung Bruce Lee-----
Originally posted by robertlee
No one was ever trained to take of . Bruce did not plan to die anytime soon. And had closed his schools. Dan and taki was the only 2 left alive after bruce passed that were authorized to give instruction. Had James lived he may have been more inline to take over. So dan was more that only 2 left he was the one to take it forward. Not the one chosen by Bruce to suceed him. He has done a good amount on his reseach and bringing in the different concepts to explore. So he deserves credit to Keeping the aspects alive.
Although it has nothing to do with performance, so it does not really matter from that point of view. But My Sigung new Bruce and I've heard the personal stories and that matters to me a little bit. I practice and teach Jun Fan first, before I change anything. When someone is ready to expand, they will not only learn it from me, but they will take it upon themselves to explore.
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