Starting JKD from a Wing Chun background

[lordguaca]

Hi

Just replying. To the various postings.

I want to clarify a few things. I am in no way having a go at Bob Breen's classes or how they teach. I find Martial Arts are a very personal experience. My idea of JKD just wasnt fulfilled there. You are right, there were/are various classes there. And a lot of the training was extremely similar. However, the JKD element specifically (not stick fighting or grappling...etc) seemed to me to be mostly just Thai boxing. Maybe thats what they teach new students. i dont know. I just wasnt what I'd read JKD was.

But who am I to preach, I am a novice, and only studied there for 7 months. But in that time I didnt learn any of the basic JKD strategies ie. aim for the eyes and groin. No stop kicks, nothing. All the kicks I was being taught during that time were the Thai round kicks where you step over (exposing your groin).

The training was great, but I just felt I something was missing. But like I said at the end of the day it is a personal thing. You might think its perfect. Go and try their classes out and see what you think. At the end of the day its you that has to decide.

What I have learnt in the past year seems more in line (at least to me) with Bruce Lee's original ideas.

Hi Swan104

in answer to your question, under my Sifu we do learn Silat and Kali as well as JKD. There is usaully an element of all three in one of his (long) sessions. We get graded by sifu Dave Carnell at the end of July, so I imagine our Curricullum to be very similar if not exactly the same as yours.

[swan104]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
Ask him about Kevin, he will remember.

As for JKD, he didn't represent it then. But I do remember being confused at some of the things we did and, looking back, I suspect he was only toying with the idea of branching out from Wing Chun then.

There is a book "The Path to Wing Chun" by Samuel Kwok. He was the senior to Dave and Kevin, and they are both in the pictures.

I was only on Red Sash, 2nd level when they asked be to set up a club and be instructor. I believe it was merely cash oriented, as I lived in Stafford, which wasn't within too easy reach of their Burslem club. I'd "instruct", and they would take the cash. But I have too much respect for the martial arts and potential students to do that. Apparently they didn't.

One of the many things that made me leave was being graded by "Master" Kwok himself. We had to punch the wall bag, and all did it exactly as Dave and Kevin had shown us. But Sam the man found a fault in all our techniques. It was the same fault in all of us, but WAS the way we had been shown by Dave and Kevin. But they bollocked us for being crap, and accepted no responsibility for it at all.

Like I said, it was all a long time ago. We all develop. I hope Dave Carnell has, for your sake.

No offence. You seem like a good guy. But it is all true. And there is more if you are interested.

I think I remember browsing through the "Path to Wing Chun" book in a bookstore quite a while ago. There are pictures of my sifu in there, but it does say in the book that he is not part of that lineage anymore.

I too, have a lot of respect for the martial arts. This may sound corny but not only do I respect my sifu, but I also the assistant instructors, and the club in general. To me, I'm not really concerned about becoming an instructor etc - I just don't have the time. If I did pursue instructorship training, then it would be for pure enjoyment of it, and to develop myself. It wouldn't be about the money. At the moment, all I'm concerned about it what they can teach me, and I have learnt a lot since being there. I have to say it has changed my outlook to the martial arts.

Maybe we all make mistakes in the past. I've seen a lot of monkey instructors out there in the past with no quality control whatsoever.

Bri, no offence taken. You have every right to express your opinions. Thanks for letting me know anyway.

Guaca, I'm not sure what it is like training at Bob Breens academy, and this is not a criticism in anyway, but I was taught that the JKD bai-jong (or ready stance) should be adopted. When we use Muay Thai techniques, such as the round kick, knees etc, it is done within the JKD framework. We're told that we're JKD and not Muay Thai. In Bob Breens academy, do they train strictly in Muay Thai for the kickboxing element then? Oh, I have a phase test coming up soon as well!

[lordguaca]

Hi Swan103

I think that there were classes that were strictly Muay Thai. I never participated in them, so can't comment on them. I did the grappling clases which were great. The stickwork was particularly good, I was very impressed.

But the begginners JKD classes had alot of Bruce's JKD elements missing. For example they never referred to the ready stance as the bai-jong. Which in itself isn't a problem as its only a name. But their stance was different. It was similar to what I have been taught now, but it did have some quite distinct differences. It didn't have the front foot turned in slightly to protect the centre line, and if I remember rightly, it led with the left hand and left foot. The opposite of what I am taught now ie. have your most powerful weapon (for most people the right side) pointed at your opponent. There were also no Stop kicks, no Biu Jee (finger jab) or even the Jik Ch'ung Straight Blast. To me these are the bread and butter of JKD. But none of these things were taught to me in the 7 months I was going to Bob Breen's academy. And I was there solidly at all the beginniners and phase 1 classes (during 2000). Admittedly these may be techniques that are taught at a much later stage. I dont know. But at a begginers level non of these elements were ever taught or demonstrated to me.

But like I said its horses for courses. What I am learning now is closer to Bruce's original teachings, and that is what I was after. Other people may find that what is taught at Bobs is right for them, and thats cool, I respect that.

[swan104]

Personally, being left handed and right footed puts a spanner in the "strong-side forward" principle! Anyway, I do take a preferrred right-lead, but I do train in left as well when I can.

The first time I saw JKD people adopting a left-side forward/orthodox fighting stance was on a Burton Richardson video I saw a few years ago. At the time, it baffled me a bit. Later on, I found out that Dan Inosanto and the students at his academy adopt a left-lead. His explanation was:

1. The majority of martial artists are left-leaders. Adopting this yourself will allow you to relate to your opponent (which kind of makes sense, but any expansion on this subject will be very much appreciated.

2. Guest instructors from other martial arts that visit the school will not have to worry about teaching a bunch of left-handers!

I do boxercise for fitness and CV work, and its funny because the pad-man thinks you're a bit freaky because you're left-handed/southpaw! lol!

[pseudoswitch]

Hi Guys,

lordguaca > Thanks for the info regarding Bob Breen's academy and the training there. I'm due to start training there this month so the info you provided here is very useful to me

Do you think Dan Inosanto has changed his JKD teaching slightly then? Maybe the Cass Magda line are still training the 'original' stuff and Bob Breen's academy have changed to the new material along with Dan Inosanto's academy and Burton Richardson's group? Oh well, i have a lot to learn

Could you give me some details on the phase structure at Bob Breen's? How long does each one last approx. and is there a fixed structure to the phases? For example does a student need to attend a certain number of JKD classes and grappling classes for each phase etc??

Cheers,

pseudo

[Guest]

Hey swan - I am also naturally right handed and left footed.

There ain't many of us around.........

[swan104]

I always thought all right handers were right footers as well!

[lordguaca]

Hi pseudo

To be honest I could'nt really comment on Dan Inosanto's changes, as I am too much of a novice to understand them. All I can vouch for is what I have learned so far, and to me my current schools teachings are more in line with Bruce Lee's original ideas of self defence. And on a personal level, thats what I was after.

As to the phase structure at Bob Breen's academy, you should ask them for details.

Thanks

LordGuaca

[pseudoswitch]

Thank you so much.

[swan104]

Originally posted by pseudoswitch

Do you think Dan Inosanto has changed his JKD teaching slightly then? Maybe the Cass Magda line are still training the 'original' stuff and Bob Breen's academy have changed to the new material along with Dan Inosanto's academy and Burton Richardson's group? Oh well, i have a lot to learn

I don't think Sifu Dan (or anyone else that has adopted this approach) has deliberately changed to a left-lead in an attempt to enhance JKD in anyway. I think by taking a left-lead, it may be easier for you to learn about other systems.

You have to remember that Cass Magda was/is a student of Dan Inosanto, so the JKD he learnt wouldn't have been that much different to what people like Burton Richardson would have learnt.

I'll post this question on Burton Richardson's section of the forum. Maybe he can shed some light on this.

[terry]

Originally posted by pseudoswitch
Do you think Dan Inosanto has changed his JKD teaching slightly then? Maybe the Cass Magda line are still training the 'original' stuff and Bob Breen's academy have changed to the new material along with Dan Inosanto's academy and Burton Richardson's group?

Dan Inosanto constantly changes his curriculum as did Sijo Lee before him. Each period has produced some good guys. However, the term 'original' breaks down under analysis. What you can do is date the time when a person trained and to what extent they've updated their training.

Cass Magda got much of his training in the '70s and early to mid-'80s. He has updated that training since then in several areas.
Burton Richardson came into his own in the mid-to-late '80s at the school in Marina del Rey. He has also grown in a different direction and has completely changed his perspective since that time. Both can teach a variety of older curricula, but both continue to grow on their own direction. It is their right to do so.

I don't know Bob Breen, nor do I have much information about his curriculum.

Terry

[gurojay]

hi all just a comment on the syllabus at the bob breen academy in london , a lot of you guys are stating that bob isnt teaching the jkd concepts as you expected,well i can clear this up,
the main class structure found at the academy is jkd/kail ie the jkd expression of the filipino martial arts,along with this the other areas covered are muay thai,boxing and an integrated grappling system blended from many areas.
the jun fan material is taught but only really from an historical standpoint as we all know it was a system the silo bruce himself discarded in favour of his jkd concepts.
all said the bob breen academy is highly recommended for anyone seeking to truely understand the flow of combat and the jkd way.

[gurojay]

i feel that i have to defend my guro bob breen,to say that his classes do not consist of jkd is not only an insult but also ludicras.
guro bob was guro inosanto first european student and is regognised as the leading authority on jkd in europe.
while it is true that there may not be a undying loyalty to jun fan gung fu ,the class content is covered by the many concepts and principles of jeet kune do
train hard find your own way ,walk on

[swan104]

I don't think anyone here was being disrespectful to Guro Bob Breen. I think we were just curious as to why different people's JKD is different, and for what reason. I do respect Bob Breen. I've never met him but he has an excellent reputation in the UK as a quality teacher.

I think we all understand the notion of "my jkd is not your jkd." I believe the thread has evolved to asking, "why these people have adapted their own JKD in that way?"

[Jason Dare]

Abit off-topic

Hi Steven/Swan, I've seen that your a sifu, one question.. Would you happen by any sudden chance to know if there are any JKD schools, Clubs, Class's in Herefordshire or withing 25 miles of it? I live in hereford and there are none.. all but over 20 bloomin Karate schools If you suddenly happen to know if there is.. i'll give you a.. wagon wheel