Pissed off Instructors

[Lost Ronin]

Honestly I think that politics are one thing that martial artists should not really care about. What I mean by that is, who the hell cares wether or not a technique is from a different style? All that matters is wether or not the technique is effective. I have seen so many masters that are total bullshitters and/or have a limited mentality about cross-training. One master I knew, he specialized in Okinawan Karate but had cross trained and posessed multiple degrees in other arts such as Judo, Aikido, Jujutsu and etc. He got pissed off at me because I would incorporate Western Boxing with my Karate during "Freestyle" sparring! What the hell is that all about!? I understand about confusing new students by teaching them multiple disciplines at the same time, but I truly think that most masters punish their students for simply doing something that they don't teach, and that is wrong. Let me put it this way, I trained with that same master for about 2 years. Whenever I would find something that I didn't like about the style, I would modify it so I could pull it off during sparring (I wouldn't teach other people) within a year and a half of training this way, I was wiping the floor with the Master's brown and black belts, who were really talented but very rigid in their approach. So honestly, if what you teach doesn't work, don't get pissy with other students for trying to make the style better, that is what martial arts are all about! How do you think the traditional styles were created? By centuries of trial and error and refinement of techniques. Styles are nothing more than a body of knowledge at our disposal, we use the system, the system does not use us.

[Szczepankiewicz]

But you don't know enough about me to judge me on my character or credibility.

Allow me now to disagree. How long you've trained and what you've accomplished in competition is great. However, what you have said in your defense of character and credibility comes across in many of your posts.

Teaching people without consent of your instructor and teaching them topics that are neither covered nor accepted in your school NOT TO MENTION, as others have, that these students may be unprepared for what you are showing them speaks volumes about your credibility and especially your character.

With all your experience and teaching skill one would expect that you would avoid such applications of your piss-poor judgement.

It doesn't matter if your a white belt or if your the head of the school, you are still required to think before you act.

Indeed I do believe I understand you well enough to call your ego into question.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz


Allow me now to disagree. How long you've trained and what you've accomplished in competition is great. However, what you have said in your defense of character and credibility comes across in many of your posts.

Oh, ofcourse... Now that you've been thinking about this for a few days... Do tell me about your newfound reflection...

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Teaching people without consent of your instructor and teaching them topics that are neither covered nor accepted in your school NOT TO MENTION, as others have, that these students may be unprepared for what you are showing them speaks volumes about your credibility and especially your character.

So I guess when Bruce Lee decided to teach Gwailos Kung-fu, he should have stopped because it was against the rules and customs of the Asian community? With all due respect, there are numerous people who embark on personal refinements in the classroom. How do you think BJJ began, or TKD, karate...

Can you honestly tell me that when you run your own gym, you will be teaching exactly the same things your instructor taught you, in the same manner... I don't believe so, nor does anyone for that fact. Every instructor brings their own unique experience to the gym and every student will test it for themself and regard or disregard what works for them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
[B] With all your experience and [i]teaching skill[i] one would expect that you would avoid such applications of your [b]piss-poor judgement[b].

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
It doesn't matter if your a white belt or if your the head of the school, you are still required to think before you act.

Since when have you become an advocate of "thinking?" A man who does not think is not a man - Nietzche

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Indeed I do believe I understand you well enough to call your ego into question.

Oh... I see we have a psychiatrist in the house now. Hooray, do I get a psyhic reading too?

[Szczepankiewicz]

Woohoo, we haven't had a good pissing contest since realfag left us!

Can you honestly tell me that when you run your own gym, you will be teaching exactly the same things your instructor taught you, in the same manner

You're right, I won't. I don't teach the same way he does now. But I will tell you that I teach the curriculum under his supervision. As I get better the supervision has lessened dramatically.

The fundamental difference between what you are talking about is this: When you teach people lower than your skill level, you work on what your instructor has laid out. If you are the instructor (Head of School, HOS) then you get to lay out the lessons. Deviation as an assistant shows a total lack of respect for the school, the HOS, and is inherently dangerous for your students.

Now, if you want to branch out and 'discover' to satisfy your thirst for an alternative lifestyle, you work with your peers and superiors. The Senior students and instructor in my school do this on a regular basis. We even do it when the instructor is gone. But we have worked to earn trust that allows us this latitude. I've never taught a whitebelt the Super Secret Flying Chicken Choke. Oops, I shouldn' have said that....


So, if you are teaching newbies techniques that are:
- Outside the accepted curriculum
- Dangerous
- incomplete

You are a huge liablity to everyone involved. When you act thusly, then it does call your credibility as an instructor into question.

Hell, pretty soon you'll be advertising in Black Belt Magazine.....

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
You're right, I won't. I don't teach the same way he does now. But I will tell you that I teach the curriculum under his supervision. As I get better the supervision has lessened dramatically.

The fundamental difference between what you are talking about is this: When you teach people lower than your skill level, you work on what your instructor has laid out. If you are the instructor (Head of School, HOS) then you get to lay out the lessons. Deviation as an assistant shows a total lack of respect for the school, the HOS, and is inherently dangerous for your students.

Now, if you want to branch out and 'discover' to satisfy your thirst for an alternative lifestyle, you work with your peers and superiors. The Senior students and instructor in my school do this on a regular basis. We even do it when the instructor is gone. But we have worked to earn trust that allows us this latitude. I've never taught a whitebelt the Super Secret Flying Chicken Choke. Oops, I shouldn' have said that....


So, if you are teaching newbies techniques that are:
- Outside the accepted curriculum
- Dangerous
- incomplete

You are a huge liablity to everyone involved. When you act thusly, then it does call your credibility as an instructor into question.

Hell, pretty soon you'll be advertising in Black Belt Magazine.....

First of all, you’re making assumptions beyond what you know. It would be more beneficial to your argument to present a case based on what is actually true. Basically, you’re fanatical response is based on poor judgement, but I’ll amuse you with some facts.

For instance, I NEVER taught beginners outside techniques. Furthermore, I began teaching other martial arts techniques only after beconing from several of MY students. Aside from that, the techniques I began teaching were not a total deviation from Korean MA... They have been used in the past and are now beginning to resurface or have been integrated with time.

On the point of a lesson plan. There are two types of people: those who learn the fundalmentals and simply teach them and those who strive to creatively use that knowledge to enhance and motivate. I prefer the latter, as do most professers and teachers alike. The best classes I’ve attended are ones where the educator brought his own experience, insight and innovations. And yes, the creative thought process is formed from a central core of thought.

On another note, it would have been impossible for me to introduce my personal ideas to my Master. He was a first generation Korean Instructor in the United States and carefully regarded the Korean MA codes of conduct. Simply put, our views were not the same and we parted.

In all honesty, your baseless comments shows a lack of character.

[Thai Bri]

I agree. And he poos his pants.

[Szczepankiewicz]

First of all, you’re making assumptions beyond what you know.

Am not! Am not! Am not! I am drawing conclusions based on what you have posted.

I began teaching other martial arts techniques only after beconing from several of MY students.

Well, yes. We get students all the time who want to learn this or that. They want the flashy neat moves without the drudgery of actually having to learn the basics first. Especially after the release of a Matrix movie. However you cannot hope to sustain the roof without a proper foundation.

I'll have to admit I am a little confused. Let's see if I sum this up.

You got asked to leave after teaching outside techniques without your instructor's permission to students who were paying him for teaching them Korean arts?

This is the basic premise from which I am arguing. I'll have to check but I think this is what you said.

Before I proceed I'll go back and reread....

[Thai Bri]

and wash his pants, presumably.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Here it is.

One friday night, my Master's wife stopped at the dojan and observed me teaching street tactics. That was the last time I set foot in the there.

So my statement was correct, yeah?

You got asked to leave after teaching outside techniques without your instructor's permission to students who were paying him for teaching them Korean arts?

You were teaching outside techniques to someone else's students in someone else's school.

Whether or not you were trying to 'free their minds' you were in the wrong. Now you are attempting to defend your 'credibility' by justification of your actions?

Traditional or not, even well known instructors would not come into someones else's school and co-opt the curriculum.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Thai Bri.... your dark cynacism is vaguely familiar. Who are you????

[Thai Bri]

Not the laundryman. Luckily........

[Thai Bri]

Me again. I remember way back when I trained Shukokai. I was in a transition, realising that so much of it was bollocks. When it was time to march up and down punching thin air I made like a boxer. My instructor would say "But that's boxing, not Karate!" and tell me off. So I reverted to the silly way.

The last time I went I'd been away a while. He had sold his training hall and was hiring some crap scout hut. I watched the class and honestly didn't see one person who could fight a lick. Towards the end a group of soccer players came in, as they were hiring the hall after us. It struck me that just about any of the soccer players could kick the crap out of just about any of the Karate-ka.

I walked out that moment and never went back. I was 20 years old and a 1st Kyu Brown Belt. Amazing really. At 20 I was very fit and could hit really hard. But the (near) 40 year old Thai Bri would take the 20 year old, no problem.

Where was Grappling? Where was Combatives? What a waste. Years in the wilderness looking for arts to respect. I didn't find them for 15 years.

There. Got that off my chest.

ps - Spanky is right. If you don't want to do what the instructor says, go somewhere else.

[Lizard]

"Whether or not you were trying to 'free their minds' you were in the wrong."

Right and wrong is a matter of opinion. Great sage probably enjoyed teaching the techniques, the students enjoyed learning them and were given a better chance of defending themselves in a fight BUT the master got angry because he felt that his authority was in question so he punished Great sage. I don't see why Great sage was in the wrong.

[Thai Bri]

Thats because you are intellectually challenged. It was somebody else's class. Somebody else was in charge. Get it?

Doh!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Right and wrong is a matter of opinion

That, my friend, is a load of horseshit.

If you want to get all philosophic and say things like 'in a hundred years it won't matter' Or maybe go Zen and 'say nothing at all matters' ... we can get knee deep into it, but not on this thread.

and were given a better chance of defending themselves in a fight

Now who's making assumptions? He might have been teaching them very effective technique. Maybe he taught them something that acutally saved one of their lives. I dunno. Nor do I care, as that is not the point of this discussion.


You do not go into someone's house and do as you please.

If you think I'm the one that's wrong here, go try it out for yourself and let me know how it goes.