Bruce Lee's Size.

[Paul Wilson]

Wroung

Originally posted by Tom Yum
Mass is not allways strength. And strength is not allways speed. Speed however is an element of power.

That's why large fighters hit hard, but slower than lighter fighters. Remember the Ruiz vs Jones Jr bout? The Ruiz supporters joked that Jones Jr was a little man with no punch -

The outcome of the bout was captured best in a photo on ESPN boxing. Ruiz is throwing a hammering right cross while Jones Jr is slipping and connecting with an uppercut. In the still photo, Ruiz's nose is crushed and blood is flying toward the camera.

Don't know if any of you guys have sparred with pro lightweight/welterweigth fighters in standup? They are EXTREMELY quick and hit very hard despite giving up muscular weight to larger, less experienced fighters.

Strength is not always speed. WHAT.

[Lizard]

Strength and speed are not always the same. You can be fast but weak or strong but slow. I understood. People on this forum are obsessed with Bruce Lee. Other styles aren't so fixated on their founders and "what would the founder of our style have done?"

[Paul Wilson]

Wroung

Originally posted by Tom Yum
Mass is not allways strength. And strength is not allways speed. Speed however is an element of power.

That's why large fighters hit hard, but slower than lighter fighters. Remember the Ruiz vs Jones Jr bout? The Ruiz supporters joked that Jones Jr was a little man with no punch -

The outcome of the bout was captured best in a photo on ESPN boxing. Ruiz is throwing a hammering right cross while Jones Jr is slipping and connecting with an uppercut. In the still photo, Ruiz's nose is crushed and blood is flying toward the camera.

Don't know if any of you guys have sparred with pro lightweight/welterweigth fighters in standup? They are EXTREMELY quick and hit very hard despite giving up muscular weight to larger, less experienced fighters.

Strength is not always speed. WHAT. Speed is power, not strength.
Mass isn't always strength. WHAT. Are you insane man, bigger muscles simply = more strength to a person with less mass.
People bulk-up so there fat (fat from un-saturated fat, the good fat) will allow their muscles to increase in strength, as they have to carry a heavier load around. Plus Amino acids will be used so muscle growth and repair will happen baby.

Hey the Ruiz vs. Jones JR fight was good though RIGHT

[Tom Yum]

Lifting strength does not necessarily equal technique speed or power in an MA like Muay thai or boxing.

I don't think there is a one to one correlation unless the lifting movements work on sport-specific muscles and copy the sports work-profile AND you are getting technique practice in.

I've seen guys that focus too much on heavy weight training and not enough on technique while they are still learning a MA like Thai boxing and their torsos become stiff and their punches 'push' rather than snap. In boxing you have to be loose, quick on your feet w/ good reflexes, have strong leg push off/explosive hip torque.

If you allocate your time doing heavy bench and arm curls but do not spend the time throwing 1,000s of punches with good technique you will be a slow, stiff fighter with push-punches or kicks.

There is a time and place for building max strength. Strength is really important in other MAs like wrestling & Judo, but technique still doesn't take back seat.

excellent technique + speed + strength = power

[ryanhall]

I'm with Tom Yum on this one. Though greater mass often implies greater strength, this is not always the case. Haven't any of you ever grappled with someone who was larger or appeared more built, but you turned out to be stronger than they were? Functional muscle and 'beach muscle' are nowhere near the same thing. Look at a body builder and a NFL running back. They may weigh the same, the body builder may even be heavier and be able to put up more at the gym, but the difference in functional strength is massively in the favor of the athlete.

[terry]

Yep, I've seen it before. Looks like Tarzan...hits like Jane.

[Paul Wilson]

Shut up

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Listen to me or be blinded by your own pettiness.
I said Power not strength.
You now nothing about Fast Twitch Muscle Fibres.
Technique has nothing not do with the speed of your muscles.
They contract slow or fast. Fast twitch fibres give fast and explosive muscle contractions to give fast and explosive attacks.
Weight training will give to Fast Twitch Muscle Fibres.
Technique is very very very important but technique does not change muscle to explosive muscle.

O and for you Tom Yum; You will not become a stiff fighter if you weight train properly and stretch regularly.
Bruce knew this.

.................................................................................................... .....

Feel free to continue with this discussion after you have researched on "Fast Twitch Muscle Fibres."

Now do you believe me?

[Paul Wilson]

No probs

Type Fast Twitch muscle fibres into a search engine.

[terry]

Re: Shut up

Originally posted by Paul Wilson
You now nothing about Fast Twitch Muscle Fibres.

A bit less self-righteousness would suit you. Paul, I don't disagree with your point of view about the value of fast twich muscle fiber training. But in the future if you cannot pursue the matter in a more civilized way you will find your posts getting deleted.

Terry

[Tom Yum]

Paul, I do weight train regularly. I am coming off offseason training and getting ready for pre-season. Last month I spent increasing my limit strength, while maintaining cardio/stamina and technique. FYI - I can bench press my own body weight about 17 times. I can do 15 pullups and squat well over twice my body weight.

I just started a new workout program focusing on speed-strength. I'm trying to get my ability to be explosive and quick for a 4 minute burst 3-4 times, with one minute rest.

I'm not arguing that fast twitch muscles are useless, cause they aren't. What I am saying is that lifting strength doesn't equal speed/functional strength and I am a big supporter of weight training.
__________________________________________________

About the Jones Jr./Ruiz fight here's a quote from a sports writer at infinityboxing.com

"After the opening stanza, one that most ringside observers did, in fact, give to Ruiz, Jones seized control of the action and eventually began to systematically break down both Ruiz¡¯ face and confidence. For the next eleven rounds, Jones danced in and out and stung Ruiz with left hooks and straight rights with the precision of a tattoo gun. By the fourth, Ruiz¡¯ nose was busted up, a dripping, bloody faucet. If that wasn¡¯t enough, his right cheek and eye were already starting to puff up as well. Late in that round, Ruiz tried to charge in to entrap Roy, but Jones blasted him with a gatlin gun-like counter right. Ruiz¡¯ legs turned to wet noodles and he was in trouble of being dropped, but his experience allowed him to latch on to Roy and survive the round, that being the last time he was hurt in the fight.

From that point on, Ruiz couldn¡¯t do a thing to Jones, who actually began to taunt him like a rooster, smiled, turned to the crowd and shuffled his way to a sure victory. It was simply amazing how much Jones was in control of the battle. In fact, he made it look so easy, that some of the light heavyweight ¡°bums¡± that Jones dismantled in the previous years gave him tougher fights. Ruiz was angered, frustrated and eventually saturated in his own blood that poured from his nose and mouth. Ruiz just couldn¡¯t figure out the tricky Jones at all and appeared lost and clueless."
- BTW Jones jr. was originally a middlweight when he entered the pros. He's been able to adapt pretty well.

[Paul Wilson]

Re: Re: Shut up

Originally posted by terry


A bit less self-righteousness would suit you. Paul, I don't disagree with your point of view about the value of fast twich muscle fiber training. But in the future if you cannot pursue the matter in a more civilized way you will find your posts getting deleted.

Terry

Then if that is your point. This discussion forum has not been set up for realistic points of views.

To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person. Bruce Lee

[terry]

I don't care what point of view you take. What I do care about is making sure the discussion doesn't descend into infantile recriminations. Unmoderated discussions descend into a barroom brawl where the trolls drive away the constructive contributors.

There has been a long series of threads on this forum regarding training methods. Try typing FT or fast twitch into the search engine at the top of the page. You'll find that people are not as ignorant as you believe.

Making inflamatory and insulting assertions about other people's posts does not contribute to any understanding of the martial arts. In this case, I find it even more curious that you have reacted so strongly to points that were not contained in Tom Yum's original posts. Final warning: You need to conduct yourself in a more civilized manner or find another forum.

Terry

[Ms. J]

Bruce Lees Size

Jowan worte: I asked this question on a few other forums but got no actual scientific reply- Why was Bruce Lee so light?
At the time of Enter The Dragon being filmed he was 125 Lbs.


A Woman’s Conmen sense perspective:

Ok I have read all the reply’s here and well, I don’t get why this is some kind of mystery, or why a huge scientific reply is needed. Flat out Bruce lee was Chinese, he was born with a specific body type based on his race. Instead of fighting what his body type was he trained it to be its most effective based on what he had without fighting the natural build of the body type he was born with. he inhanced its postives and found positive options out of the possable negatives of having the smaller frame.

Facing either body type on the streets:

Bruce Lee’s body type is much harder to read in a confrontation, and its said his movements were almost impossible to read. One of the reasons this was is because of the body type he had. Furthermore, his movements were not telegraphed by the extra body muscle and body mass that the opposite body type carries with it.

When I face a body type like Bruce lees I am totally aware and alert because I cant read him physically as easily as I can the larger built opponent. Because of this, my instincts need to be even more on tune and ready instantly, because I know how much faster he can get to me and make his frist strike, then the big heavy dude can.

The body type of Arnold Schwartsennegger: The mass of the body makes it much easer to read in a confrontation, this is due to the fact that it takes a lot more to move the massive frame behind the build. Each movement is over exaggerated compared to the smaller frame and body type of Bruce.

For me indavidualy, this means a number of things, with the larger built man I can be forewarned earler because I will have earler physical warning signs from the larger man. this gives me more of an ablity to anticipate what he is going to come at me with. knowing this I can try and keep my distance, possably tire him out by running him around, so that I am not overpowered by his weight in a close quarters match.

The other smaller framed man I have a better chance of fighting off in a close quarters but he will be faster getting to me then the larger man is and possibly be able to get his frist attacking strike in faster then I can my defense. He will also not tire out as quickly as the larger dude will so the fight could take a lot longer.

All of that is of course based on my natural body type and its limitations and its strengths when facing these 2 extreamly differnt body types. But this is just conmen sense stuff is it not?



Ms. J...

[Disciple]

I don't see all the confusion about this post.

Anybody read any of the biographies on Bruce Lee or see the ones on the history channel or A&E?

He was extremely stressed, overworked and probably not eating properly during the filming of Enter the Dragon. This would cause anybody to lose weight.

[mr. bond]

i don't see that as being so light. i'm a 5'7'' guy that weighs only 130 pounds...it's not unreasonable to weigh 125 at that height if you're slim.