Pfs

[Tom Yum]

I don't train in JKD or PFS, but I just read some of Vunak's books and articles and am incredibly impressed with the systems that he developed. Especially defenses against techniques from other martial arts. I guess the time spent working with the Seals from 88-91 was helpfull.

The RAT system looks like Muay Thai self-defense, but more stream lined.

Another impressive feature is to borrow from exotic allmost unheard of arts and use them with devastating effectiveness- you guys know what I'm talking about, yum yum

[Szczepankiewicz]

Have you compared those with the new Shredder from Senshido?

[chowyunfatears]

word.. vunak is pretty bad ass.. his street safe series is kind of like his r.a.t (rapid assault tactics) video .. and his street fighting series is broken into different elements. he's very thorough in showing you how to do something i.e. plenty of instruction and slow mo. i was impressed with the street safe 2 series.. so i got some other stuff from him... also picked up his mook jong dummy training vid from panther..

if you wanna see some interesting stuff, check out ex-spetnaz vladamir vasilek's SYSTEMA ... hard to learn and understand because hes speaking in russian and its dubbed in english.. but i can still see what he is doing just perfect. its what the russian spetnaz train in... and if you dont know, spetnaz aint no punk bitch. trained soldiers everywhere are afraid of systema because it is so unorthodox and deadly. i have never even heard of it until just recently. never has been showed to outsiders until vlad made the dubbed version and sold it in the states. i dont think it was meant for the public anyways.. but hey..interesting stuff if you havent seen it before.

[brokenelbow]

its what the russian spetnaz train in

I believe very few spetz trained in it.

trained soldiers everywhere are afraid of systema because it is so unorthodox and deadly.

Uh, OK

PS I really like Systema and am amazed at Vlads skills, but the guy doesn't wear a cape and an "S" on his chest. But the vids are very interesting to watch.

[chowyunfatears]

Originally posted by brokenelbow
I believe very few spetz trained in it.

Uh, OK

PS I really like Systema and am amazed at Vlads skills, but the guy doesn't wear a cape and an "S" on his chest. But the vids are very interesting to watch.

yea.. i didnt call him superman or god-like.. but the stuff is very different from what i usually see. now systema isnt my first choice of something to learn but you have to keep an open mind to new information.

and i dont think they are afraid of learning systema.. they are more scared of fighting someone well trained in systema. ive seen video on some of them training and it is very fluid looking almost like a rubber dummy. vlad's hand to hand combat skills ARE exceptional.. incorporate systema with other mma, jkd, etc.. and the results could be awesome.

[Tom Yum]

Thanks. I'll look into it.

If you're also into blades, you might find 'Tactical Knives' a good magazine. Like all magazines, it merely touches the surface of a subject but it gives you a topic to explore in greater detail.

[brokenelbow]

Chow, where did you get the idea that "trained soldiers everywhere are afraid of systema because it is so unorthodox and deadly." Which trained soldiers?

[chowyunfatears]

Originally posted by brokenelbow
Chow, where did you get the idea that "trained soldiers everywhere are afraid of systema because it is so unorthodox and deadly." Which trained soldiers?

look.. i wasnt trying to call it the deadliest art on earth or anything. i was simply trying to say that soldiers everywhere gotta respect the russian spetnaz for their hand to hand combat ability.

people everywhere are afraid of seals, spec ops, spetnaz, etc ,vice versa.. they all respect each others fighting ability and some of them tend to think that they fight better than the others.
my friends uncle is an ex special ops hardcore military dude and he knows his shit. he said that they go through some hellafied training and that their "h2h combat skills are exceptional but very unorthodox". thats what kinda got me interested in the whole subject matter. i didnt even know what the hell it was but i like learning new stuff.
now im not a seal or spec ops, or any sort of soldier, but im just passing on what i hear. but from what i see, it kicks major ass. alot of SEALs do learn PFS/JKD tho and thats awesome and i think that it would probably be the best to use against systema. i just think that a fully trained spetnaz would be a VERY formidable opponent regardless of who they fight.

just check it out for yourself brokenelbow.

[Tom Yum]

I imagine spec ops get good H2H. In the marines, they train pretty hard - you have to be able to take an uppercut to the gut!

[eXcessiveForce]

I'm surprised that Platinum angel hasn't been drawn to this thread.

[brokenelbow]

look.. i wasnt trying to call it the deadliest art on earth or anything. i was simply trying to say that soldiers everywhere gotta respect the russian spetnaz for their hand to hand combat ability.

Very few spetz trained in Systema (which I think is a great system). Very few spetz were actually up to par with the SAS, SEAL, SF or even ASAS. Most were considered thugs. Guys like Vlad are among the cream of the crop and he's a helluva good teacher.

people everywhere are afraid of seals, spec ops, spetnaz, etc ,vice versa.. they all respect each others fighting ability and some of them tend to think that they fight better than the others.

LOL, All of them thing that they fight better than the others.

i just think that a fully trained spetnaz would be a VERY formidable opponent regardless of who they fight.

Any specops guy is a bad choice to fight with.

just check it out for yourself brokenelbow.

I have.

[Rashid]

RAT / Shredder

Have you compared those with the new Shredder from Senshido?

Two entirely different things, I have seen both and Richard Dimitri's Shredder isn't a technique or a system as much as it is a close quarter concept. Both have their place and in my opinion compliment each other.

[Tom Yum]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Have you compared those with the new Shredder from Senshido?

My impression is that it is very close quarter H2H with the head and neck. But, I haven't seen a tape of it or any books, just the stuff from the web. Head and neck are really good concepts for self-defense, especially with stand up grappling.

Speaking of standing head and neck techniques, I think chin na and hapkido both have good concepts. At the white belt level HKD, you learn elementary throws and takedowns called kibon soo or elementary techniques. The techniques introduce you to the major areas of the body that can be manipulated or used to control balance - i.e. the wrist, elbow, shoulder,neck, head, waist and legs.

The techniques look easy, but take good balance and understanding of leverage and circular momentum. The wrist control techniques are learned first and are identical to aikido's Ikkyo, Nikyo, Sankyo and Younkyo. The throws and sweeps are practically the same as Ippon-Seonage and Ogoshi which use leverage and hip power from Judo. At red belt and higher you learn yu sool and kwan jel sool which are judo and jiujitsu techniques too, "yu" in Korean martial arts is the "ju" in Judo.

The challenging part of such basic techniques is not only perfecting them, but setting them up against a resisting partner. You have to add a push, pull or strike sometimes. You get confident as a blue belt and then find yourself a 'white belt' as you practice them against resistance.

I haven't formally studied chin na, but have looked at books from different series. Alot of deep muscle and tendon 'pinching'. I guess it explains why those guys strengthen their fingers, wrists, forearms and shoulder. Applied to the face and neck, these techniques would be extremely devastating.

Just curious, where did shredder techniques come from???

[Rashid]

Just curious, where did shredder techniques come from???

From my understanding, the Shredder isn't a technique or about techniques at all.

Here's an explanation from the Senshido website (www.Senshido.com)

"The Shredder is a physical retaliation concept that is comprised of several short, traumatic offences such as eye gouging, ear ripping, palm striking, raking, biting, elbowing, spitting, throat crushing and neck and head cranks and manipulations. It is a spontaneous barrage of gross motor skills where the targets are manifested by your attacker's panicked attempt at defensive disengagement. Diversity of tools used is produced by your adaptability.

What it does is, it bypasses your opponent's reflexive response and flinch mechanism due to the repetitive, on the quarter beat, onslaught. This guarantees landing every single one of your strikes. It also offers maximum tactile sensitivity and can be applied anytime providing (in some instances) that strategic implementations are applied. The Shredder is a primary tool and tactic for any close quarter / grappling / ground fighting situations.

Psychologically, the Shredder shocks, unbalances and disorients your opponent completely, due to the savage nature of the retaliation. Akin to your hands being like magnets and your opponent's face being a piece of metal, it is far beyond your average striking combinations usually seen in the majority of systems and styles. There is no memorization of techniques involved whatsoever, it all depends on the targets made available by your opponent's reactions and your closest weapon application.

The Shredder isn't solely applicable to the head and neck areas but can also be applied to the rest of the body using a variety of natural tools. It can be used in minimum potential and maximum potential violence situations. For minimum violence potential, a more passive Shredder would be used. For maximum violence potentiality, the Nuclear Shredder is required. The difference lies in the actual pressure and force applied behind each tool when striking, gouging, ripping, raking, cranking and tearing. It's the difference between a poke and a deep gouge and everything in between."

Rich keeps stating on his tapes that the Shredder isn't a technique and that the techniques used are incidental. I've used the Shredder and I highly recommend it. It will really add to any existing arsenal regardless of style. It especially works well with things like PFS's RAT system and other typs of RBSD systems. I was very satisfied with the results I achieved with the Shredder.

[Tom Yum]

I can see it working really well with PFS R.A.T system, because the R.A.T would close the gap while doing the most damage on the way in and Shredder would finish in perhaps a more psychological shocking way than R.A.T.

I've read from some Dr. Yang's Chin-Na series and noticed face ripping, eye gouging, fish hooking, neck muscle ripping, ear pulling/popping and perhaps some more fatal moves.

I imagine any similarities are coincidence since human anatomy is a constant. But regardless, I would hate to be a part of those demos.