Who did Bruce lee actually fight?

[WaTEr]

all i have to say is... bruce lee was a featherwieght quicker on his feet than anyone or possibly anything that ever existed. again 'good footwork can beat any kick or punch" what to say else about bruce, he had a friend who designed his own personal equipment. for training, i believe he was a part of "team too extreme".
people do hit trees to strengthen kunckles and fists. its one of my training methods (soon to start). Right now i use a bag of old wrapped jeans pretty tough, but not as hard as trees, soon i will lose all will to lead a sane life and start beating up trees. i will in my life do what i please and acheive inner harmony and happiness. and if you wish to get in my way i'll take you out like the many trees that will come before you

[RobertG]

Originally posted by akja


Domstarr, offered up the documentary as referance.

Do you have PROOF its bull shit?

Yep--he didn't die on the street, that's your proof he wasn't fighting all the time. If people were constantly challenging him on the street, sooner or later someone would have pulled a blade and cut him, or gotten ten of their buddies to jump him, and then claimed to have beat him. Also, he would have likely injured himself if he were constantly streetfighting. Sorry, Bruce was great, but not superhuman. Lets look at a more recent example--Mike Tyson. He's a big target and he's got a bad attitude. Nonetheless, so far as I'm aware, since being a professional boxer he's only been in 3 or 4 street altercations. In at least one of these fights he broke his hand, in two fights he required medical attention, and I think every time law enforcement was invovled. To think that Bruce was fighting constantly on the street and somehow didn't get hurt or get the cops called is just delusional.

[Domstarr]

Bruce Lee fights

The director actually SAW numerous fights that Bruce Lee was in. I ask the same question, which is, what documentation do you have that it's bullshit? Or are you just negative on Bruce Lee?

[RobertG]

Ok, first off you can't even give a source, except some director of some documentary. Who and what documentary? Then we can check your sources.

That said, I don't need proof. I gave logical reasons for why Bruce did not fight in the street constantly. He would have either died, gone to the hospital or gone to court and/or jail eventually. These are facts of the universe. No human is immune from these realities. Bruce was great, no doubt. But sooner or later he would have broken a hand. Sooner or later he would have gotten shanked by some punk with a knife. Sooner or later the cops would have been called and Bruce would have gotten hauled down to the station. Explain to me how Bruce could avoid these facts of life and I might be willing to take your "source" more seriously.

[RobertG]

Originally posted by WaTEr

people do hit trees to strengthen kunckles and fists. its one of my training methods (soon to start). Right now i use a bag of old wrapped jeans pretty tough, but not as hard as trees, soon i will lose all will to lead a sane life and start beating up trees. i will in my life do what i please and acheive inner harmony and happiness. and if you wish to get in my way i'll take you out like the many trees that will come before you

Ahh, the folly of youth. Go ahead, take me out. Big accomplishment that will be. Be ready to explain your temper to a judge. Damn, why don't you people come back to reality?

Go ahead, hit a tree. That is totally retarded and unnecessary. Why do you need to hit a tree when a punching bag and focus mits will do just fine? If you want arthritic hands when you're 40, go for it. How exactly does hitting trees acheive inner harmony or happiness? It does achieve breaking your hands very well. Oh wow, you'll get some nifty big ass callouses on your knuckles that look like tumors. Chicks will really dig that. They'll also dig when you tell them how you like to beat up bags of jeans and trees. That will do wonders for your social life.

[NWPTrainer]

I find it ironic that people insist Lee was a great real-world fighter. The only witnesses that speak of these so-called grudge matches with other kung-fu gurus in SF are his students. even the people on the set of ETD were friends, family, or "employees." When someone shows me evidence from someone who has nothing to gain by promoting this, I will take it seriously. Was Lee a great M.A.? undoubtedly. Was he a skilled fighter? WHo knows? WHo cares? the fact that he "invented" an art doesn;t mean he was a bad ass. It ain;t the art, it's the fighter. He talked and wrote a good game, but since noone has ever presented unbiased evidence that the guy was a real-deal fighter, who cares?

I think it's funny that people even give a $h!t about it. UNless you are B. Lee, his fight record doesn;t mean squat...It ain;t yours.

RLTW

[Domstarr]

So RobertG thinks he has to have the name of the documentary and the name of the director before he believes. I have a feeling that even with that information you would find something else to doubt. Anyone who has followed Bruce Lee will remember it. Kareem was interviesed in it, James Coburn was interviewed in it. Bob Wahl was interviewed in it. They all say the same thing. Now you have names. Are you happy? You still haven't given us the documentation you have to prove it's bullshit. We're waiting. I personally trained with Paul Vunak, who trained with Dan Inosanto, who, as we all know, developed JKD with Bruce Lee. Dan told Paul and Paul told me. Now you have more names for your "documentation". I've taught JKD street fighting to guys 6'3" and 230 lbs. ( About a half hour ago) and size means shit when you know how to take out legs and do destructions. This guy is also a trained fighter and he can't get near me because I take out his legs, and when I let him "enter" I destroy any limb he throws at me. He gets frustrated trying to hit me. If I can do that, there is no reason why Bruce Lee couldn't have done it to guys a lot bigger than him and won street fights. Maybe when you're not a novice anymore you will understand.

[akja]

double edged sword

Originally posted by NWPTrainer
I find it ironic that people insist Lee was a great real-world fighter. The only witnesses that speak of these so-called grudge matches with other kung-fu gurus in SF are his students. even the people on the set of ETD were friends, family, or "employees." When someone shows me evidence from someone who has nothing to gain by promoting this, I will take it seriously. RLTW

You're logic goes both ways since YOU can't prove he didn't get in those fights. I'm not saying that he did, I'm just saying that you have no proof that he didn't and that was the topic of the thread.

My Sigung told me of the "Oakland-Wong Jack Man fight" and he had nothing to gain. He's always taught in his garage and hardly ever charged much. He was Bruce and James Lees student at that time.

But I am curious, just where is this financial gain that you say these "liars" are receiving?

[Domstarr]

It's interesting that RobertG is making comments about a man (Bruce Lee) and he admits to not seeing the documentaries made about his life. You have no basis to make any of your comments. When I go to the gym to lift weights, I hear lots of guys "talk" about how to get big, this supplement, that system, etc. Then I saw a guy with a t-shirt that said "Want to get big? Shut up and train." I got on this forum to tell people that although Paul Vunak is a great fighter and teacher, that he is a flakey human being and doesn't live up to his word. I end up getting in cyber-arguements with some wannabe martial artists who make as much sense as my ex-wife and her divorce lawyer. My advice is get off the computer and go train!! I'm out-a-here.

[Thai Bri]

I have seen documentaries that say aliens have landed on earth, and documentaries that have said they haven't.

Documentaries saying that the Loch Ness monster exists, and documentaries that say it doesn't.

Etc. etc. etc. If you base your view on what you have seen in a documentary, especially ones with actors in it, then you are rather illogical, Captain.

Rickson has proven his prowess in front of millions. Bruce supposedly proved it in front of a select few students........ It isn't difficult to assess the probablilities about who has the most real credibility as a fighter.

This is my favourite quote from the thread - "all i have to say is... bruce lee was a featherwieght quicker on his feet than anyone or possibly anything that ever existed."

Pulease! Lets stop this ridiculous hero worship! It is bleedin' sad and stupid.

And no. If someone makes a point the onus is not on others to prove it is not so. The onus is on the guy who made the point to prove the point. AND IF YOU THINK PROOF COMES IN THE FORM OF tv DOCUMENTARIES, THEN YOU NEED YOUR HEAD SEEING TOO!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

What a strange world this internet is...




Ryu

[RobertG]

Originally posted by Domstarr
It's interesting that RobertG is making comments about a man (Bruce Lee) and he admits to not seeing the documentaries made about his life. You have no basis to make any of your comments. When I go to the gym to lift weights, I hear lots of guys "talk" about how to get big, this supplement, that system, etc. Then I saw a guy with a t-shirt that said "Want to get big? Shut up and train." I got on this forum to tell people that although Paul Vunak is a great fighter and teacher, that he is a flakey human being and doesn't live up to his word. I end up getting in cyber-arguements with some wannabe martial artists who make as much sense as my ex-wife and her divorce lawyer. My advice is get off the computer and go train!! I'm out-a-here.

I did not admit that I never saw any documentaries about Bruce. I asked which documentary it was--learn to read, not read into things. I tend to agree with Thai Bri. Documentaries mean jack. They're meant to get an audience. People don't want to watch a documentary that says, oh, well Bruce never actually fought.

I'm also rather curious as to how you figure I'm a wannabe martial artist. Where did you get that information exactly? You're more than welcome to contact Tim or anyone else on this forum that trains with me to get an honest assessment of my skills or lack thereof. I don't go around posing like I'm some badass, cause I'm not--but I do train, train regularly, and I'm hardly a wannabe. One thing that I am for certain is a skeptical scientist. Claims that anyone fights regularly on the streets are to be met with skepticism. The only sort of people that I know of that fight in street fights all the time are criminals. You will notice they are subject to the problems I posed to you--they get hurt in fights and they usually wind up having law enforcement types haul their asses into jail. Period. No exceptions. You simply cannot fight on the streets in the United States with some sort of regular frequency without encountering these problems. This has been the case for probably the last 40 years or so at least. We are a semi-civilized nation afterall. And this doesn't even go just for the US. Do you see the Gracie's fighting on the streets? No. And they haven't for a long, long time. And I suspect even way back in the day in Brazil that a lot of those fights were semi-regulated matches. BJJ was not developed by rolling with guys with blades on the street. Everyone here admits that Bruce was a great martial artist and teacher. There is, however, zero evidence that he was a street fighter. None. Not evidence by either a scientific or legal standard. So basically you have hearsay, and not even much at that. You believe Bruce fought in the streets because someone said so. Great. If this were actually true then don't you think we'd have heard about it from more sources?? If all the martial artists of Bruce's time challenged him then they'd all be talking about it. "Yeah, when I fought Bruce...." There are no articles about it, no other corrobarating stories. Nothing. So don't sit here calling me out because I don't believe some myth about Bruce Lee. He did not fight on the street any time after his teenage years. And most famous martial artists don't because they're usually smarter than that.

[NWPTrainer]

Re: double edged sword

Originally posted by akja


You're logic goes both ways since YOU can't prove he didn't get in those fights. I'm not saying that he did, I'm just saying that you have no proof that he didn't and that was the topic of the thread.

I can't prove that he didn't. Fortunately, since I am not a student of Jun Fan/JKD/Kali, etc, it doesn;t really matter to me. THe only reason I have any stake in the discusion is the desire to see that novices to the SD/MA field do not get suckered into believing unsubstantiated mythology.

My Sigung told me of the "Oakland-Wong Jack Man fight" and he had nothing to gain. He's always taught in his garage and hardly ever charged much. He was Bruce and James Lees student at that time.

Notice that I never said anything about financial gain? IF your instructor was, in fact, a student of Lee, he may very well GAIN faith in the system he studies by believing that Lee actually experienced the fights. Whether the people that propogate the mythology about the great heroes of the MA world are gaining financially or not, there generally IS some form of benefit to them in the propogation of the myth.

But I am curious, just where is this financial gain that you say these "liars" are receiving?

Again, I never said anything about financial gain. Nice try though.

RLTW

[Great Sage]

With all due respect, Bruce Lee was a great martial artist. As I’ve stated earlier, whomever wants to believe Bruce was a first class martial artist is welcome to do so. I always liked Bruce because he took the road less traveled. Bruce Lee believed in the “will to succeed,” the human spirit. His ideas are innovative and fresh. Regardless of how many guys he could beat up, in my opinion Bruce Lee remains one of the greatest martial artists.

[Domstarr]

Still very interesting how you assume things. Just because you've been told that Bruce Lee got in street fights, you're ASSMING that means he got in hundreds of fights and would have been in jail, etc. He might have gotten in just twenty street fights for all we know, started by someone else, with witnesses where he would NEVER have been arrested. My heresay as you call it is from the producer/director who's name I believe was Weintraub, from Ken Wahl, from James Coburn, from Dan Inosanto, from Paul Vunak, so I think you need to read a little closer. When the number of people who WITNESSED these things all say the same thing, it is not heresay anymore. We're all still waiting to hear form you YOUR "documentation" that Bruce did NOT get in street fights. All we hear is that you think he would have broken something or been put in jail, which is all just your opinion, not based on fact, eyewitness reports, nothing. Wouldn't hold up in court.